rivendellrose: (seeress)
rivendellrose ([personal profile] rivendellrose) wrote2009-07-06 05:32 pm
Entry tags:

out of my... former religion... thing. oh, just OUT!

Some articles just leave you wondering why... why... well, I'm not even sure why what, exactly, just why. For instance: A bunch of people had a 'Fairy Congress' in Twisp, Washington on the summer solstice.

Now, I'm still pretty pantheist in my atheistic sort of way (...that make sense to me, though I suspect it may possibly be nonsense to the rest of the world - suffice to say that I never really thought of god as god when I believed in a god, so much as believing in the universe and the inherent holiness / awesomeness (in the oldest sense of the word) of life, so not calling it a deity any more doesn't do a lot to change the way I think about things) and I've always had a strong affection and affinity for the old stories of the Good Folk and so on. However.

After I got over giggling my head off about the mental image of a bunch of aging hippies dancing in fairy wings up in the mountains of my fair state, I suffered one of those moments that I've always felt marked out pagans who were in it for the cool 'magick' and gothy emo-ness of it all from the ones who, you know, had actually bothered to read a bit of mythology at some point.

'Good lord,' I thought - 'If those people really believed in fairies and knew what they were talking about in regards to fairy-lore... they would know that all of that was a fantastically bad idea.'

Since no one appears to have been transformed or stolen away, I think we, sadly, must mark this down as proof that the Good People either never existed, have left, or... never lived in Washington State to begin with? *Sigh*
gaslightgallows: (Ceiling Jareth is watching you masturbat)

[personal profile] gaslightgallows 2009-07-07 12:45 am (UTC)(link)
I'm going to go with "Never lived in Washington State," that way I can leave all my childhood dreams of tall and vengeful fae intact.
ext_18428: (seeress)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 12:57 am (UTC)(link)
Want to know a secret? Me too. Even as I wrote that, I was thinking "god, that's kind of absurdly depressing in a really bizarre way."

...and your icon is fabulous. ♥
gaslightgallows: (During the cutaway anything's possible!)

[personal profile] gaslightgallows 2009-07-07 02:08 am (UTC)(link)
I have two ways of looking at life. One is the slightly cynical, more or less agnostic way. This side of me says "WHY are aged hippies prancing around dressed as faeries?" and hangs my head in shame for the sake of my species.

The other side of me is utterly credulous and innocently willing to believe almost anything, and says "OMGOMGOMG they will be smote by angry faeries with killer pride and even more killer fashion sense!"

This inevitably leads to a "my faeries can beat up your faeries!" argument with myself. It's weird in my head.

*coughcoughIwishCeilingJarethwaswatchingme*cough*
ext_18428: (Nuala / a creature of autumn)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 02:39 am (UTC)(link)
That was pretty much my reaction exactly - a combination of "oh, please, these crazy people are just too much" and "holy shit, are we sure that none of them got kidnapped or changed or otherwise horribly, horribly punished for this? And that all the kids came back?"

Welcome to the weirdness. I can convince myself out of god, sasquatch, UFOs and ghosts, but the minute I start thinking about the Good Folk I get a bit fussy and nostalgic. I would never say I believe in Them. But I still feel compelled to capitalize it out of respect. ;)

[identity profile] shadawyn.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 01:05 am (UTC)(link)
You know, I haven't completely written out the existence of the supernatural, but... WUT?
ext_18428: (seeress)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 02:36 am (UTC)(link)
In my 'saner' moments I've more or less admitted to myself that the supernatural doesn't exist, but I'm still weirdly superstitious and given to a lot of magical thinking and a lot of pantheist / pagan ways of thinking. I haven't totally worked out what the hell all of that means. But I'm still extremely WUT about these people. And more than a little pissed off at them cheapening a body of myth that I passionately love and sort of wish I could believe in, honestly. :P

[identity profile] cyranocyrano.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 01:17 am (UTC)(link)
As Gene Wilder once said, for some moments in life there are no words.
gaslightgallows: (Nibbled to death by cats...)

[personal profile] gaslightgallows 2009-07-07 02:11 am (UTC)(link)
Your quote and your icon have just made my night. ♥♥♥
ext_18428: (Bored - Sarah and Doctor)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 02:39 am (UTC)(link)
That just about covers it, yup.

[identity profile] lorannah.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 01:22 am (UTC)(link)
I think we have similar religious outlooks - I personally don't follow any particular religion that I see problems and values inherent in all of them - but I don't think I'm particularly atheistic. I'm spiritual, I believe in something - I just can't explain what.

And finding a label to describe it, particularly one that other people would understand, is definitely a challenge
ext_18428: (Merlin's an idiot)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 02:33 am (UTC)(link)
I've more or less settled on "atheist," since "pantheist" tends to get me either weird looks or even weirder conversations, and I tend to be... adversarial toward organized religion, as well as towards the fluffy woo-woo stuff that a lot of pagans spout. But in my heart of hearts, yeah, I still haven't given up a lot of affinity and affection toward spirituality of a very personal sort, and I will freely admit that I get a little nostalgic about it a lot of times.

On one level, I always say that the universe is a plenty interesting place as it is, and I don't need the supernatural to make it more interesting. But sometimes, as with stuff like this, I'm reminded that when I say "I don't need the supernatural," what I mean is "I don't need interfering busy-body gods to be creating things, when it's perfectly obvious from a scientific standpoint that the universe works just fine on its own." I do intensely and devoutly wish that I could believe in other aspects of the supernatural... and then idiots come along and dance in 'my' bloody forests pretending to call on fairies to fix everything, and I get absurdly annoyed because, damn it, they're cheapening something that I still sort of wish I could believe in, by being morons about it. :P

And your icon is, of course, adorkable.

[identity profile] cyranocyrano.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 02:33 am (UTC)(link)
...Okay, I found some words. But mostly they're "I want to start attending these events for the sole purpose of getting quoted by the newspaper guys."
Because I can make shit up just as impressively as these folks, plus I have history/folklore to base things on, so I have the bonus of coherence.
ext_18428: (birch grove)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 02:42 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, that's the thing - I wouldn't mind as much if these people knew what the hell they were talking about. As it is, it just makes me want to tear my hair, scream, and then... I don't know, retreat into my happy little fictional world where these things are true and people like them would totally get what's coming to them for rampant arrogance and idiocy.

Seriously, the whole thing is just too weird for words.

[identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 02:58 am (UTC)(link)
My ex-wife was (and possible still is) into the whole Faerie thing. In fact, she was in part of this whacked-out fringe movement called "Otherkin" whose members seemed to genuinely believe that they were faerie-folk, or had faerie blood or, um, something like that? Anyway. It was all about how they were Teh Speshul, and how we mere mortals were incapable of understanding or appreciating their Speshul-ness...

Yeah. I mentioned the ex was bugfuck crazy, right? That's kind of why she's the ex.

Anyway. That sort of thing sounds right up her alley. The aging hippies in the article were probably convinced they were Speshul, too, and that any fair folk they called up would recognize and reward their Speshul-ness with rainbows and glitter and unicorns and....

Right. I think I'm about to sparkle myself to death here. *g*
ext_18428: (Nuala / a creature of autumn)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 06:13 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, Otherkin. I'm familiar with them mostly through the joys of Fandom_Wank, but... yes. I think all of us sci-fi/fantasy types came up with much the same wacky stories for ourselves when we were, oh, ten or twelve. And then we got over it. *Sighs*

And that any fair folk they called up would recognize and reward their Speshul-ness with rainbows and glitter and unicorns and....

Yeah, most likely. I still insist that they must be reading different books of stories about the Fair Folk than I do, 'cause the ones I read about tend to be pretty pissy when people interrupt their parties to be self-important gits. ;)

Believe me, I recognize the impulse - I've wanted to dance around a bonfire in the moonlight and dream of something magical happening just as much as the next girl who read a whoooole lot of fantasy literature growing up, but... somehow I doubt that attending 'lectures' on chi and spirit contacting and what-have-you and wearing sparkly fairy wings is really going to make all that happen.

Also, I love how the journalist threw in that no drugs were involved. Because... yeah....

[identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 06:27 am (UTC)(link)
Also, I love how the journalist threw in that no drugs were involved. Because... yeah....

Because otherwise you'd assume they'd been snacking on the local mushrooms? *vbg*

Like most angsty tweens, I went through a period of desperately wishing that I could find a magical wardrobe that would allow me to escape my miserable existence.

Then I grew up.

These people? Need to grow the hell up. Yes, whimsy and magical thinking are fun and have their place, but what these people are doing is just plain whacked. They also, as you so rightly pointed out, have no grasp of history. Fey Folk are dangerous, even the "good" ones, and they were like that BEFORE Christianity got hold of the old legends and tried to make them into demons.
ext_18428: (birch grove)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 03:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm not sure if there are any really 'good' mushrooms around here, but I'm sure there's a few that'll give a good show before they stop your heart, yup. *g*

Yes, whimsy and magical thinking are fun and have their place, but what these people are doing is just plain whacked.

That's just it. I'm all for play, and I'm all for having your fun even as an adult, but... there's a big difference between a Renn Fair and running around at least pretending to genuinely think you're going to contact the Otherworld and have them save everything here. That's called not taking responsibility, from where I stand.

[identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 04:15 pm (UTC)(link)
That's called not taking responsibility, from where I stand.

That's exactly what it is. It's a different variation on the whole God's Will thing. "It's not my fault, it's bad spirits/the stars were misaligned/it's God's will."

One of the the things that initially drew me to paganism was the concept of the Threefold Law: What you do has consequences, so you'd best think real hard about your actions and be willing to accept responsibility for them. Over time, this idea has been largely abandoned, and this fluffy, silly nonsense has taken its place. It's all about angels and fairies and spirit guides now.

There was someone at the Healing Center casting out "demons" a while back. These demons were, of course, visible only to the "healer", and for a fee, he would rid you of them and cleanse you of all the negativity they caused in your life. In a bad mood? Depressed? Feeling irritable and snapping at your spouse? It's not your fault, it's little invisible demons!
ext_18428: (blown)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
It's not your fault, it's little invisible demons!

That's actually the #1 thing that annoys me the most about religious and/or spiritual folks. Atheists may get a bum rap for being "amoral," but all I see in the world is that religious people look to books and cards and seers and all sorts of other outside sources for their morals and the big questions of life, while atheists and agnostics and the like have to do the dirty work of figuring out morality and what we want out of life all on our own. I can't count the number of times I've heard people say "I'll pray about it" in response to a question or "God will tell us the answer" or just plain pinned whatever decision they made, action they took, or whatever on the almighty "God's Will."

We don't get that luxury. If I screw up, I don't get to say "oh, it's God's will." I don't get to assume that every bad thing that happens will turn out well in the end because there's some kind of holy order to the universe. It means making decisions on my own and dealing with the consequences, and sometimes that fricking sucks, but that's adulthood - not being able to point the finger at some invisible thing on a cloud and say "he made me do it."

And yeah, I thought paganism would have more of that maturity and acceptance of reality, too. Boy was I disappointed.

[identity profile] kusanivy.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 12:33 pm (UTC)(link)
There's definitely a Hellboy fic in there somewhere...
ext_18428: (Abe)

[identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com 2009-07-07 03:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Exactly my thought. ;) (Un)fortunately, I'm still slaving on the fic-bunny that started eating my brain a year ago when the damned movie first came out, so... whatever this one wants to be will just have to wait until that is finished. *Determined*