rivendellrose (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
rivendellrose) wrote2006-09-23 08:55 pm
rivendellrose) wrote2006-09-23 08:55 pm
Entry tags:
the last word
Ack. I just finished the last season of B5. o_O;
Expect commentary to be added to this entry later, and probably a glut of fic to follow. For now, I have one last, triumphant request of my friends who've been around in this fandom longer than I have:
HIT ME WITH ALL THE SPOILERY FIC AND DISCUSSION YOU'VE GOT - I CAN FINALLY READ WITHOUT FEAR!!! :D
Extra points for Lennier, Delenn, Marcus, and Ivanova, of course. And G'Kar. I've missed out on a lot of good G'Kar fic, I'm betting. XD
Number One (Tessa Halloran) is back! I loved her so much - she's so... snarky and droll and ill-tempered. In short, I would probably have developed a crush on her if she'd been around any longer, so I guess I should be grateful she just showed up for this one. Anyway, it was great to see another familiar face.
Now that I've done a bit of the happy, I'm sure everyone who's been reading here can guess what I'm most upset about. I shall give it to you in script form.
Sheridan: *Is stupid and goes to 'help' where he wouldn't know a damned thing about what to do.
Random Ranger: *Wonders what the fuck Sheridan is doing* Umm, sir? This is great, but if you don't hurry, we're both going to die?
Doors: *Close on them*
Lennier: *Runs up, appraises situation*
Sheridan: Push the button!
Lennier: *Looks at button. Looks at Sheridan. Thinks for a moment... DOESN'T DO A DAMNED THING*
* * *
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miss_arel: Where did that come from?!
Me: Out of Strasczynski's ass.
Seriously. This is not just me being a Lennier fan. I love the boy; I admit that freely and clearly, and completely acknowledging that he's a total dumbshit sometimes, and definitely has more than a few canonical flaws. But we're talking about the guy who, not three years ago in canon, nearly got himself killed saving Londo, who at the time was behaving pretty much the scum that the universe rubbed off the bottom of its boots. Yes, jealousy is a nasty thing. Yes, I can understand why he'd be pissed off at Sheridan, maybe wouldn't be too damned upset if Sheridan got himself killed, and would certainly love to take the guy's place at Delenn's side. But I have a hard time believing that this is the same character I remember, even from a few episodes ago. And what's with this diary that we all of a sudden find out has all of his secret hatred for Sheridan bottled up in it? Could we maybe have established the existence of said diary just an eensy bit ago, just so that those of us who give a damn aren't sitting there going "what diary? Do Minbari even keep diaries?" Because that was pretty much my thought on the whole thing.
Now I've been worried about Lennier's feelings toward Sheridan (ha, that sounds wrong... but you know what I mean) since the Shal'Fan, or whatever - the pleasure-center-ceremony-thing, anyway. "Woo hoo" and all that. I thought there was a bit of... well, I sure as hell thought he didn't look happy with the situation then. But... manslaughter? Voluntary, look-him-in-the-eyes-and-turn-away manslaughter? No fucking way. Color me a rabid fangirl if you must, I'm having a real hard time with this one.
In reference to earlier discussionsoszras and I have had regarding fandom opinions, let me take this time to register that I still can't imagine how someone could twist this into Delenn being inconsiderate or otherwise cruel toward Lennier. She didn't have any choice - had he not left on his own, she would have had to impose consequences for this. And when he did leave, she did her best to call him back and give them the opportunity to talk things over. It was, in the end, his choice - and I approve of that. I also wholeheartedly thank JMS for not squashing any last small hopes I had for the character. I was terrified that the end of "Objects at Rest" would see Lennier nothing more than a cold corpse, and I'm so relieved that he has the opportunity to work on redeeming himself. I can only hope he doesn't fuck it up. He did change his mind after that moment of doubt, he was going back, and I'm determined that his shame and guilt over what happened indicate that the Lennier I knew earlier is still in there, and will be back once he's had a good long time to think, to be alone, and to wander the universe seeking... wisdom. And hopefully a bit of peace.
Oh, in reference to a comment about the sea (and because I just heard through our heat-ventmiss_arel commenting on the same scene to nekokoban, I have only one thing to say: Minbari are not the elves. If anyone in this series is/was/ever will be the elves, it was the Vorlons. There is no sea in space. As far as I'm concerned, that line should not have existed. It blew me out of the moment so hard that I covered my head in a blanket and yelled at the TV. Way to go, JMS - you pushed that one too damned hard.
Another sledgehammer moment - the goodbye between Sheridan and Delenn. Believe me when I say that I wanted to like it. I wanted to be touched by this love that has grown on me so much from the first moments of S2, when I thought it was ridiculous for Delenn to have fallen for this dopey guy so quickly that her (new) hair had barely dried out of the coccoon before she started making doe-eyes at him. I've come to love them, adorably spastic couple that they are, and I've even come to love Sheridan (although I'll never stop calling him a dumb puppy, 'cause that's what he is). But that Went Too Far. Congratulations, JMS, once again you have found the line between drama and melodrama, and you have happily tapdanced your way right past it and into the sugary-coated world of 'dear god shut up before you make me sick.' Somebody needs to learn when to keep his mouth the hell shut - if he'd left it at their conversation in bed the previous night, or just part of that conversation in the morning, I would've been fine. And it would have been beautiful. As it was... that was just over the top.
I liked the 'good night,' though. And the actors did the best they could with the lines. I don't mean to pick, I just... geagh. Anyway, go ahead and proceed with stoning me, now.
I liked the end of the station. It felt right to leave it behind, to watch the lights turned out (by JMS himself, no less, it seems), and watch it... well, blown to smithereens. It sounds wrong to say that I liked that. But I did. And I loved the little cut-scene with Sheridan picking up an abandoned, crumpled up newspaper on the abandoned station and tossing it in the trash. He's such a boyscout, and so protective of his station.
Franklin looked like his daddy in the last few scenes, except less angry and less... expanding around the middle. ♥ I should say, I really developed a lot of fondness for Franklin in the last few seasons. Still not nearly so much as other characters (who, believe me, I'll get to in just a moment!), but I very much came to like him. Garibaldi looked cute in the beard, though I couldn't help thinking he was copying Sheridan. And his daughter was so... his daughter.
I continue to be creeped the fuck out by David Sheridan. Maybe if we actually saw him I'd feel better... or maybe that'd make it worse, I don't know. All I know is, he gives me the heebie-jeebies. I mean, they can try as hard as they want to raise him just like any other kid, but he's the son of the president of the interstellar alliance and the head of the rangers. And then... the same two things, only in reverse. I find it hilarious that they traded positions. But hey - that's them to a T, I guess. Anyway, that kid is not going to be normal. And it worries me, a lot. But at least we never had to deal with him. And presumably he somehow got out of having that Keeper attached to his throat. I'm betting Delenn killed it. After all - what was the first piece of advice Sheridan gave his child? Not "believe in yourself," not "I'll always love you no matter what," no... "Listen to your mother, because she's the wisest person I've ever met." (Paraphrased, of course.)
miss_arel as Sheridan: Listen to me, kid. Your mother is always right. You will listen to your mother. You will not ignore your mother's recommendations. Your mother is God. *Long pause* Sorry, Ivanova.
(A moment of seriousness - that speech made me all weepy. If I listed all the points in the last three episodes that made me weepy, I'd be here all night. But that one definitely did. Doesn't mean I didn't laugh my head off whenmiss_arel said that.)
Vir has become Londo. Only... well, less boisterous, less obnoxious, less cheery. But still - Londo. ♥ He's all growed up. And somewhere, I am convinced that Lennier by this point was no less grown up. (Hush, I know Morden said he would die soon after, but that was Morden. If the devil himself can't be lying to serve his purposes, then what's the fun of anything? Besides, 'soon' by his marker could be... any amount of time. *Plugs ears and refuses to think of any other answers*)
And of course, Susan. She's back! I was so happy to hear that grumpy, growly voice reaming a new level of Earth bureaucracy. ♥ I loved her and Delenn finally showing a little of that friendship we know they must have developed, I loved her taking over the Rangers, I loved the cut bit with her taking two things from her office full of awards and honors - Marcus' denn'bok (which I notice had a very prominent place on her wall)... and her fighter helmet. Oh, that's our Ivanova. How much I love her.
(My last words on the subject of Marcus:
"Cryonic Suspension Chamber"
"Subject: MARCUS COLE"
"Designation: Ranger"
"Status: Deceased"
"Comments: Indefinite Hold"
"In the event of new resuscitation technology"
"Requested by: Cmdr. S. Ivanova"
*Joy* We watched the little 'data file' Easter egg about him, and it was a total loss aside from two things - Patricia Tallman giggling and being silly about Marcus, and, of course, Jason Carter. "So... am I dead?" ♥
Oh yeah, and I was really kind of irritated about Lorien showing up to escort Sheridan away. I wanted it to be Kosh. Yeah, I know Kosh is dead... but he's Kosh for god's sake! I wanted to see Kosh as Sheridan's daddy one last time. But no, creepy-ass Lorien. At least Byron didn't make any last minute appearances. :P
And the last little documentary ending? Totally rocked. ♥ Very nice way of bringing things to a close. It's been one hell of a four-month ride. Thanks to all of you who got this far, for putting up with my rambling, encouraging me, freaking out with me, and occasionally poking me mercilessly about whatever I happened to be panicking about at a given moment (*eyesspazzychic*) Much love. It was a blast going through all of it with you. ♥
Expect commentary to be added to this entry later, and probably a glut of fic to follow. For now, I have one last, triumphant request of my friends who've been around in this fandom longer than I have:
HIT ME WITH ALL THE SPOILERY FIC AND DISCUSSION YOU'VE GOT - I CAN FINALLY READ WITHOUT FEAR!!! :D
Extra points for Lennier, Delenn, Marcus, and Ivanova, of course. And G'Kar. I've missed out on a lot of good G'Kar fic, I'm betting. XD
Number One (Tessa Halloran) is back! I loved her so much - she's so... snarky and droll and ill-tempered. In short, I would probably have developed a crush on her if she'd been around any longer, so I guess I should be grateful she just showed up for this one. Anyway, it was great to see another familiar face.
Now that I've done a bit of the happy, I'm sure everyone who's been reading here can guess what I'm most upset about. I shall give it to you in script form.
Sheridan: *Is stupid and goes to 'help' where he wouldn't know a damned thing about what to do.
Random Ranger: *Wonders what the fuck Sheridan is doing* Umm, sir? This is great, but if you don't hurry, we're both going to die?
Doors: *Close on them*
Lennier: *Runs up, appraises situation*
Sheridan: Push the button!
Lennier: *Looks at button. Looks at Sheridan. Thinks for a moment... DOESN'T DO A DAMNED THING*
* * *
miss_arel: Where did that come from?!Me: Out of Strasczynski's ass.
Seriously. This is not just me being a Lennier fan. I love the boy; I admit that freely and clearly, and completely acknowledging that he's a total dumbshit sometimes, and definitely has more than a few canonical flaws. But we're talking about the guy who, not three years ago in canon, nearly got himself killed saving Londo, who at the time was behaving pretty much the scum that the universe rubbed off the bottom of its boots. Yes, jealousy is a nasty thing. Yes, I can understand why he'd be pissed off at Sheridan, maybe wouldn't be too damned upset if Sheridan got himself killed, and would certainly love to take the guy's place at Delenn's side. But I have a hard time believing that this is the same character I remember, even from a few episodes ago. And what's with this diary that we all of a sudden find out has all of his secret hatred for Sheridan bottled up in it? Could we maybe have established the existence of said diary just an eensy bit ago, just so that those of us who give a damn aren't sitting there going "what diary? Do Minbari even keep diaries?" Because that was pretty much my thought on the whole thing.
Now I've been worried about Lennier's feelings toward Sheridan (ha, that sounds wrong... but you know what I mean) since the Shal'Fan, or whatever - the pleasure-center-ceremony-thing, anyway. "Woo hoo" and all that. I thought there was a bit of... well, I sure as hell thought he didn't look happy with the situation then. But... manslaughter? Voluntary, look-him-in-the-eyes-and-turn-away manslaughter? No fucking way. Color me a rabid fangirl if you must, I'm having a real hard time with this one.
In reference to earlier discussions
oszras and I have had regarding fandom opinions, let me take this time to register that I still can't imagine how someone could twist this into Delenn being inconsiderate or otherwise cruel toward Lennier. She didn't have any choice - had he not left on his own, she would have had to impose consequences for this. And when he did leave, she did her best to call him back and give them the opportunity to talk things over. It was, in the end, his choice - and I approve of that. I also wholeheartedly thank JMS for not squashing any last small hopes I had for the character. I was terrified that the end of "Objects at Rest" would see Lennier nothing more than a cold corpse, and I'm so relieved that he has the opportunity to work on redeeming himself. I can only hope he doesn't fuck it up. He did change his mind after that moment of doubt, he was going back, and I'm determined that his shame and guilt over what happened indicate that the Lennier I knew earlier is still in there, and will be back once he's had a good long time to think, to be alone, and to wander the universe seeking... wisdom. And hopefully a bit of peace.Oh, in reference to a comment about the sea (and because I just heard through our heat-vent
miss_arel commenting on the same scene to nekokoban, I have only one thing to say: Minbari are not the elves. If anyone in this series is/was/ever will be the elves, it was the Vorlons. There is no sea in space. As far as I'm concerned, that line should not have existed. It blew me out of the moment so hard that I covered my head in a blanket and yelled at the TV. Way to go, JMS - you pushed that one too damned hard.Another sledgehammer moment - the goodbye between Sheridan and Delenn. Believe me when I say that I wanted to like it. I wanted to be touched by this love that has grown on me so much from the first moments of S2, when I thought it was ridiculous for Delenn to have fallen for this dopey guy so quickly that her (new) hair had barely dried out of the coccoon before she started making doe-eyes at him. I've come to love them, adorably spastic couple that they are, and I've even come to love Sheridan (although I'll never stop calling him a dumb puppy, 'cause that's what he is). But that Went Too Far. Congratulations, JMS, once again you have found the line between drama and melodrama, and you have happily tapdanced your way right past it and into the sugary-coated world of 'dear god shut up before you make me sick.' Somebody needs to learn when to keep his mouth the hell shut - if he'd left it at their conversation in bed the previous night, or just part of that conversation in the morning, I would've been fine. And it would have been beautiful. As it was... that was just over the top.
I liked the 'good night,' though. And the actors did the best they could with the lines. I don't mean to pick, I just... geagh. Anyway, go ahead and proceed with stoning me, now.
I liked the end of the station. It felt right to leave it behind, to watch the lights turned out (by JMS himself, no less, it seems), and watch it... well, blown to smithereens. It sounds wrong to say that I liked that. But I did. And I loved the little cut-scene with Sheridan picking up an abandoned, crumpled up newspaper on the abandoned station and tossing it in the trash. He's such a boyscout, and so protective of his station.
Franklin looked like his daddy in the last few scenes, except less angry and less... expanding around the middle. ♥ I should say, I really developed a lot of fondness for Franklin in the last few seasons. Still not nearly so much as other characters (who, believe me, I'll get to in just a moment!), but I very much came to like him. Garibaldi looked cute in the beard, though I couldn't help thinking he was copying Sheridan. And his daughter was so... his daughter.
I continue to be creeped the fuck out by David Sheridan. Maybe if we actually saw him I'd feel better... or maybe that'd make it worse, I don't know. All I know is, he gives me the heebie-jeebies. I mean, they can try as hard as they want to raise him just like any other kid, but he's the son of the president of the interstellar alliance and the head of the rangers. And then... the same two things, only in reverse. I find it hilarious that they traded positions. But hey - that's them to a T, I guess. Anyway, that kid is not going to be normal. And it worries me, a lot. But at least we never had to deal with him. And presumably he somehow got out of having that Keeper attached to his throat. I'm betting Delenn killed it. After all - what was the first piece of advice Sheridan gave his child? Not "believe in yourself," not "I'll always love you no matter what," no... "Listen to your mother, because she's the wisest person I've ever met." (Paraphrased, of course.)
miss_arel as Sheridan: Listen to me, kid. Your mother is always right. You will listen to your mother. You will not ignore your mother's recommendations. Your mother is God. *Long pause* Sorry, Ivanova.(A moment of seriousness - that speech made me all weepy. If I listed all the points in the last three episodes that made me weepy, I'd be here all night. But that one definitely did. Doesn't mean I didn't laugh my head off when
miss_arel said that.)Vir has become Londo. Only... well, less boisterous, less obnoxious, less cheery. But still - Londo. ♥ He's all growed up. And somewhere, I am convinced that Lennier by this point was no less grown up. (Hush, I know Morden said he would die soon after, but that was Morden. If the devil himself can't be lying to serve his purposes, then what's the fun of anything? Besides, 'soon' by his marker could be... any amount of time. *Plugs ears and refuses to think of any other answers*)
And of course, Susan. She's back! I was so happy to hear that grumpy, growly voice reaming a new level of Earth bureaucracy. ♥ I loved her and Delenn finally showing a little of that friendship we know they must have developed, I loved her taking over the Rangers, I loved the cut bit with her taking two things from her office full of awards and honors - Marcus' denn'bok (which I notice had a very prominent place on her wall)... and her fighter helmet. Oh, that's our Ivanova. How much I love her.
(My last words on the subject of Marcus:
"Cryonic Suspension Chamber"
"Subject: MARCUS COLE"
"Designation: Ranger"
"Status: Deceased"
"Comments: Indefinite Hold"
"In the event of new resuscitation technology"
"Requested by: Cmdr. S. Ivanova"
*Joy* We watched the little 'data file' Easter egg about him, and it was a total loss aside from two things - Patricia Tallman giggling and being silly about Marcus, and, of course, Jason Carter. "So... am I dead?" ♥
Oh yeah, and I was really kind of irritated about Lorien showing up to escort Sheridan away. I wanted it to be Kosh. Yeah, I know Kosh is dead... but he's Kosh for god's sake! I wanted to see Kosh as Sheridan's daddy one last time. But no, creepy-ass Lorien. At least Byron didn't make any last minute appearances. :P
And the last little documentary ending? Totally rocked. ♥ Very nice way of bringing things to a close. It's been one hell of a four-month ride. Thanks to all of you who got this far, for putting up with my rambling, encouraging me, freaking out with me, and occasionally poking me mercilessly about whatever I happened to be panicking about at a given moment (*eyes
spazzychic*) Much love. It was a blast going through all of it with you. ♥
no subject
I'd be interested in seeing a few things you recommend, still. It's kind of a... I like the idea of the arc, I just couldn't get around wanting to strangle Byron where he stood every minute that he was on-screen. And that colored the whole arc, I guess. Plus, I could never quite seem to get comfortable with Lyta, for reasons I have yet to figure out. Sometimes that kind of stuff works out better for me in text, though.
I'm... fairly sure I'm not concerned with spoilers beyond this, unless you really recommend avoiding them - I have no idea when or if I'll get around to the movies, or whether I'll be able to find/read the novels. So at this point, I'm ready to call it fair season. ;)
no subject
Heh, yeah that's the thing. Byron's pretty much one of my favorite characters, so most of my favorite stuff focuses on him or him and his relationship with Lyta. And I know you can't stand him. And Lyta is definitely my favorite female character on the series, so a lot of stuff I really like focuses on her. Uh... I do have a Zack/Lyta piece that takes place in the future, Like Ashes We Scatter. Not too many spoilers, since it's vaguely AU and ignores one of the movies and a good chunk of the novels. It does have massive spoilers for what happens to Bester after the end of the series, though, if that concerns you at all. Bittersweet and I'm pretty proud of it.
For humor, there's a multi-part fic I'm working on that has spoilers up the wazoo for the Centauri Prime novels, but I tried to fill in details so anyone who hadn't read them wouldn't be too lost. That's A Bride For Zack Part I, and focuses on Zack and Vir. As close to crack as I'm capable of writing.
I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be interested Byron/Zack fic. :D
no subject
I'll definitely take a look at the two you mentioned - I find Lyta intriguing as a character, I could just never quite get a handle on whether I liked or disliked the way her arc developed. And anything with Vir amuses me - I remember seeing that latter fic when you posted it the other day, and I'd meant to make a note of it so I could go back once I'd finished the series. So yay!
...Oh, strange mental images. Strange and slightly terrifying. ;)
no subject
I loved Lyta's story arc, honestly. I don't think she ever did quite recover from finding out what she really was, and her channeling all that rage and frustration and hurt into trying to fix it made sense to me. And I loved the EU stuff with her and G'kar. Yeah, I had fun with that one. A friend of mine and I got off onto this whacky tangent about female Centauri, and the fic was born!
Yeah, very strange and twisted. But fun! Shall I not mention the Bester/Byron? Or the Bester/Lyta?
no subject
I love the arc (impossible not to, seeing her go from the girl everybody squashes to this... creature of nearly-infinite power), I just never figured out whether I loved her or not. If that makes any sense at all. It's one of those... she's fascinating, I could just never figure out whether I liked her as a person rather than as a character concept, I guess - that's the best way I can think of describing it.
(Holy crap, my cat is such a bastard. He was trying to climb up onto the highest shelf in my bedroom, because I'm finally reorganizing and getting things cleaned in here, and then when I yelled at him for that he started trying climb the wall to trash one of my posters. ARGH.)
...Is it bad that Bester/Lyta makes a sick kind of sense to me? And please, the Bester/Byron was so canon - Bester was totally bad-touching him while he was bargaining with Lochley for his extradition. ;)
no subject
I adored her. I don't know, just something about her. She was able to find her own footing and come into herself in such an amazing way, and just take charge of her life after so long of having so little control. So, yeah, I see where you are coming from, even if I do love her as both concept and character.
(He is an evil little sucker. He just wants attention!)
It does make sense, on a lot of levels, honestly. Ha!
no subject
*Nods* Totally awesome character arc.
(He is, and he does.)
It's hard to think of a lot that doesn't make sense when it comes to Bester, as long as it can be reasonably tied to getting what he wants out of a situation. He strikes me as an "any means necessary" kind of guy.
no subject
You just made me jump wildly out of my chair. I have been trying to convince people of this fic since B5 aired! And there's FIC! *goes to find*
You made my day! *squees at you*