more b5 rewatch

[rivendellrose]

Epiphanies

Not one of my favorite Bester episodes (I find that I don't like him nearly as much after he's doing his whole "woe, everything I do is for my Lost Frozen Beloved!" act - he's so much more entertaining pre-angst), but it does include him razzing the hell out of Zack, not to mention his beautiful line about assuming his usual room in the brig is available. ♥

Garibaldi's ANGST also continues. Big episode for ANGST, this.

The EA pilot's whole stunned "Wow, I thought you guys were meant to be the bad guys!" / "Reports of our disloyalty have been greatly exaggerated" exchange... is cute, but a bit over the top. (Dialogue on B5? Over the top? Never! :P) Likewise, I am not overly impressed by Sheridan's whole dressing-down (not literally, you dirty-minded people!) of Lyta for causing Z'ha'dum to get blown up. Yes, it was a bad thing, yes, it caused them some serious problems, but... really? Sheridan doesn't have a whole lot of a leg to stand on with issues like this, IMHO. Oh well.

Eeeeek, the Regent has a Keeper now. Eeeeeeek. They're just so creepy!

The Illusion of Truth

AKA "Reporters are BAD AND EVIL AND HORRIBLE AND WRONG!!!" part 5,622, by J.M. They-Killed-My-Goldfish-and-Drank-All-My-Beer Straczynski. Seriously, has anybody ever gotten the story here? What did some reporter do to JMS that was so horrible that he's apparently decided they're all issued the mark of the devil along with their little notebook and pen at graduation? I certainly agree that the new media and reporters have a lot to answer for, and that there's not nearly enough oversight of what they do (Faux News here in the US is a pretty damned good proof of that...), but... damn!

I also think that a mistake was made in the casting of the main reporter in this episode. Perhaps it was intentional that he looks like Mr Morden's older brother, but a) I rather doubt it, and b) even if it was, it makes it slightly confusing.

The thing is, this episode is really well-written and interesting and all. I like parts of it (Lennier head-butting the floating camera... ♥), but I do wonder - if Sheridan feels badly enough about reporters that he says "I thought we saw the worst of it with the Shadows, the Vorlons, the war... But there's something far worse than the Shadows: reporters," then why the hell would he not at least attempt to have some oversight of what the reporter puts in his show? Why wouldn't he try to get some legal assistance, or confirmation rights (difficult in this situation, I know, but there've got to be lawyers somewhere on that station - at the very least I imagine that any normal Minbari would be able to write a contract so tight even the best lawyers on Earth would have a hard time wiggling their way out of it, given the way their "Minbari Do Not Lie" truism tends to mean "Minbari Are VERY Good At Lying Without Actually Making Overtly False Statements, And Can Talk Their Way Around Anything in the Universe Short of a Vorlon"), or... I don't know, not send him on free rein all over the station? He could have been spying on their defenses, for crying out loud! Why didn't he at least make some effort to, say, keep him away from the damned secret cryo-chambers?

Also, I have to say - keeping your responses down to short sound-bites is not, in fact, a good way to prevent your comments being taken out of context. It is, as far as I can tell, a fairly good way to ensure that they can be taken out of context, as this episode shows. What you actually want to do, from what I've heard in hearing interviews with pundits and such on NPR, is make complete statements that are complete, tight, and spoken in such a way that they can't crop out bits to incriminate you. Restate the question as part of your answer (preferably not just at the beginning or end, either). And most importantly, do not, under any circumstances, make idiotic statements like "nothing will stand in our way." Things like that can't fail to sound ominous, even if you're really just an adorable Golden Retriever puppy given Human form.

Another thing that interests me about this episode is the way Earth decided to paint Delenn, specifically, as the villain of the piece. Not the Minbari in general. Not Sheridan. Delenn. It's an opening for an interesting comment on the classic blame-the-woman syndrome.

Atonement

First, the most important scene of this episode: Zack makes nasty remarks about the Minbari seamstresses, one of them stabs him with a pin, Zack freaks out and says rightly that she did that on purpose, and Lennier coolly announces that he believes Zack is correct and he will handle it immediately... and then praises the seamstress in Adronato and tells her to use a bigger needle next time. ♥ "Yeah, and don't you forget it!" Zack tells her, as the seamstresses all giggle and go back to their work. See, this is why I love Lennier. Underneath that cool exterior is a slightly wicked sense of humor... and he dislikes Zack as much as I do. ♥

Moving on to the meat of the episode. Have I mentioned recently how much I adore Delenn and Lennier? And how dearly I love Dukhat, who does not get nearly enough screen-time in this episode? Well, I do. ♥

Unfortunately, as I love this episode, parts of it make me want to shake people (specifically the writer). First off, apparently we're meant to believe that even though the Minbari pretty much worshiped the ground Valen/Sinclair walked on, his children were so terrified of persecution that they had to leave the planet... but then, bizarrely, felt safe to come home after their sainted father had died. What? Wait, either they were afraid of being persecuted because they were half (...or whatever amount) Human, or they weren't. Also, Valen looked pretty much completely Minbari. Allowing for the fact that he made himself inexplicably known as a "Minbari not born of Minbar" (or possibly "not born of Minbari" - for some reason we get both versions of the statement in the series, and while I'm not terribly fond of the 2nd version I have to admit that it's equally applicable/possible)... dude, how upset could the ancient Minbari have possibly been about this? Are we meant to believe that they were just pissed because he'd admitted he wasn't Minbari? Or, more interestingly, is this perhaps another legacy of the whole weird thing where Catherine Sakai supposedly somehow followed Sinclair into the distant past to join him on Minbar (How? How did she even find out where he was? How... Hell, I don't even know! This is a charming idea on a "dear god, JMS, you can't ever let go of even one of your OTPs, can you?" kind of level, but the actual logistics boggle me so much that I find myself, to my horror, faintly tempted to try to find the damned novel it comes from just to see if the explanation makes even the faintest degree of sense), meaning that the whole issue is not about Valen, but, in fact, about Catherine, who would presumably not have transformed until after she'd arrived with Sinclair (if at all - not sure if that's ever established or not).

I had somehow forgotten that even in this episode, Delenn appears to immediately regret the war with the Humans and not be able to stop the progress of events. ...Yeah. Delenn can't manipulate people into doing what she wants, even though she's really super determined and convinced of it. Suuuuuuuuuuure. So, that's totally her making shit up in her head, right? It has to be. I refuse to believe that she would just this once be sitting there wringing her hands, all "woe, I cannot seem to make them do what I want!" More likely she felt a little guilty, then decided screw it, they killed Dukhat.

Quick poll:

[Poll #1603335]

I'm just curious, because I frankly can never quite make up my mind about their feelings, but there's just so much going on between them, so much wrapped up in the looks and the words and the voices they use, that I just can't quash my curiosity. Also, on a shallow level, they are both absolutely sexy, and I admit that I cannot resist either of them. So, you know. If there was rampant sexing in the Grey Council's council chamber beautiful, deep, spiritual love between them, I damned well want to know about it, and since they don't exist the best I can do is ask what other people think of the matter. ...And beg for fic. Because the one time I tried, Dukhat inexplicably decided to be decorous about the matter, and that made me feel terribly cheated. :P

On another, totally unrelated level, what exactly do people think is going on with the dreaming? I get the impression it's some kind of... psychic/telepathic technology that amplifies a person's thoughts and displays them in some sort of... I don't know, something like a holodeck, except it requires drinking an hallucinogenic drink for it to work? Just my guess, but it's rather intriguing. Why does a person have to have a guide in it? And why is it always some poor acolyte who's never done it before? That seems... strangely counter-intuitive. What's the point of having a guardian / guide in the Dreaming if the person going in is often more experienced?

This is also a big episode for how important Lennier is to Delenn. He walks with her in places no one else will go, and she clearly appreciates having him with her. The cynic in me notices that Lennier may have had the slightest bit of ulterior motive here, as well - if Delenn's clan refuses to allow her to go back to B5, then by coming along and going through the ordeal with her, Lennier has neatly set himself up to stay with her... and be with her when Sheridan can't. I don't think that's the reason he did it... but he'd have to be stupid not to have the thought occur to him, and while I'm sure he squashed it as quickly as he could, I can't doubt but that it preyed on him a little. Here is his opportunity! If Callenn refuses... then he gets everything he wants - Delenn, all to himself, reliant only on him, with no Sheridan anywhere to be seen (at least until he cracks and comes to try to 'rescue' her). And here's the thing - despite that, he still helps her.

That said, I don't believe for a minute that Lennier didn't believe that Delenn is marrying Sheridan to make up for her part in the war. When he says that, Mumy played it as a moment of sudden understanding - and I think it's a moment that gives Lennier a lot of comfort. Yes, she loves Sheridan... but the idea that she's marrying Sheridan to assuage her guilt makes that a hell of a lot easier for him to deal with, I'm betting. It's not just about Sheridan - it's about Delenn making herself feel better for her perceived sin, and Lennier knows how hard Delenn is on herself, that she'll never forgive herself for what she's done unless she makes amends. More to the point, the fricking episode is called "Atonement", so, if I'm honest, I'm right there with Lennier in believing that guilt plays a significant part in Delenn's decision. Besides, it's obviously not all about Sheridan, since she was pretty clearly already considering a similar set-up with Sinclair (I know the standard ret-con interpretation is that she had feelings for him but that they weren't romantic, they were just the fascination that she felt upon recognizing his soul, but... I don't quite buy that, honestly). I think she also fell pretty hard and fast for Sheridan on an emotional level, but... I, at least, don't necessarily see that as precluding the possibility that she sort of decided she was going to fall in love with him, or that she's in love with the idea of him and of them together, or any number of other interpretations that are other than pure and emotional love as she tries to play it in this episode).

All in all, my biggest issue with this episode is quite simple: With all that Delenn has done to make sure that Destiny turns out the way she wants it to - with the sheer force of will and determination and steel that we see in her in almost every other episode of this series... how the hell are we meant to believe that she would just say "Oh, no! My clan will not allow me to marry Sheridan! Now I must stay on Minbar and never return to him, let the future do whatever it will and let the calling of my heart go unfollowed!" Excuse me? That is not the Delenn we all know and love. There are 19th century pulp novel heroines who have more passion, determination, and ferocity of spirit than that. I get that it's her culture and she wants the approval of her clan and all, but... really, this is what I picture going through her head after she receives the summons: "Let's see... the folks back home have ordered me not to make the change, ordered me not to go to war with the Shadows, kicked me out of the Grey Council, forced me to break the council, and now my clan is trying to order me not to marry the guy I love? Fuck this shit. Piss off, I'm staying on B5, and if I can't have a proper Minbari wedding, I guess we'll just have to do it the Human way. John will like that better, anyway."

Instead we get "oh, woe is me, I must go home so they can harass me and tell me never to return, so I'm going to not tell John what's going on, and just scare the crap out of him by acting all weird and manic-depressive and insisting on watching him sleep one more time before I go so that I can torture myself with the knowledge that we were really close to actually being able to get married, and then he can always wonder if I just saw something I didn't like and changed my mind or whether I was stringing him along or if he should come to rescue me and start another war with my people! This is How It Must Be, because all of a sudden I am a helpless stupid heroine who can't think her way out of a paper sack!"

Garh. Their marriage has enough of the star-crosses lovers elements already. I did not think we really needed this. Surely there are loads of better excuses to bring in Dukhat and the backstory with Delenn and him and the war. Between this and the "NO MERCY!!! ...Wait, I was angry, I changed my mind!!!" Delenn comes off through the whole episode as a bit of a wishy-washy idiot, and that just makes me sad.

Comments

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

It won't let me see the poll. :( But I vote Delenn has epic love mixed with hero worship - but not necessarily a sexual love. I can't quite articulate it. And to me it seemed that Dukhat saw himself as a father figure, that his feelings for her were more than student and teacher but again, not sexual.

But I think they both probably had naughty dreams about each other and felt guilty about it.

Love the analysis of Atonement. I did not understand Delenn going along with the whole shooting match, myself. This is the woman who broke the Grey Council. She just marched right in there and yelled at all of them and broke their big stick. She's going to meekly come home and let her clan tell her she can't marry the guy she loves? Bullshit. I think it just came down to JMS looking for a device to get to the flashbacks. So he created this string of arbitrary dramatic choices - I want flashbacks to the war. We're going to see Dukhat, and that first firefight with the humans, and find out that Delenn was the deciding vote. >>> Why are there flashbacks? >>> Delenn has to go through some trippy Dreaming thing. >>> Why? >>> Her clan makes her. >>> Why? >>> Because she's marrying a human. And then I can tie in the guilt for the war with that, Atonement, I'm a genius. JMS rules, yeah!

Except the problem with starting with the end goal and working backwards is you end up forcing the character to make choices that serve the needs of the plot, and you end up with OOC problems. It's funny, because I think Delenn is the most complicated of the characters he created, and the most complex and different depending on the circumstances, and for me at least, the most interesting, and yet it seemed like he didn't know exactly how to write her. Like, on the surface her voice as we heard it through dialogue was always consistent, but her actual actions and motivations? Could be all over the place. I noticed when I was reading through the Lurker's Guide that JMS several times promised the viewers that Delenn would be doing something badass soon, she wasn't just John's girlfriend, don't worry; so evidently he was getting shit about it as the episodes were airing.

To move away from the real serious analysis for a minute, Mira was how old when they filmed S4? 41, 42? I cannot get over how young she looks done up as baby acolyte Delenn in this episode. Some of it is just her being tiny and the Dukhat actor being monstrous, but still. It was remarkable.

Also, I had totally forgotten what Epiphanies was about. And I only watched it, like, two months ago. The only thing I remember offhand about that episode is that Delenn makes fun of Sheridan for liking to figure things out, and then there are smoochies. I'm such a dumb shipper.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Damn it! I'm having more trouble with that stupid poll... I'll see if I can't get it working again in a few minutes. :P

But I think they both probably had naughty dreams about each other and felt guilty about it.

Yup. I wibble a bit on whether Delenn had a little crush on Dukhat at times, but your description of his feelings for her are pretty much what I'd take as canon. I have occasionally wanted to write something a little smutty with them (I can't resist the pretty sometimes), but I can never force myself to actually make anything happen. It just seems so off for him.

Let's see... IMDB says Mira was born in '55, so... yeah, 42. Which, honestly, is a bit mind-boggling even in her normal scenes. I'd honestly thought she was more in her early-to-mid thirties during the series. ...And she's taller than I would have guessed, too. 5'6". I always forget how damned tall most actors are, and therefore that the actress who, judging by comparison to them, I guess to be about my own height is always a good three inches or so taller than me. Which puts Reiner Schone at... 6'4.5", according to IMDB. Daaaamn that's tall.

Height digression aside, you're right that it's very impressive how young she looks in those flashback scenes. Part of it's the height, definitely, and part is the makeup (having more of her face covered helps to smooth things out a bit), as well as the costume (simple, white, no huge shoulder-thingies, meaning she looks absolutely bitty), but I think a big part is her physicality. She changes her posture so much for that scene - all of a sudden her whole body is shouting "small shy thing! Can't handle all the attention!" It's fascinating to watch it shift, and compare it to the confident way she usually plays Delenn as standing and moving.

Don't feel bad - I forgot what Epiphanies was about between watching it and writing this commentary (about a week's time). I had to look it up on the Lurker's Guide to remind myself. :P

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, any time they had her in the robe without the shoulder caps, you could see how absolutely tiny she was. Small framed, though, not I-don't-eat actress tiny. I had no idea that guy was 6'5", though. Jeez. No wonder she looked so small!

I'm always impressed when actors can change their actual physical presentation; you don't see it very often. It's one thing to change the voice and even facial expressions, but to have that much control over posture and movement, etc? Very awesome. People always rave - quite rightly - about Peter and Andreas' work on the show, but I think Mira never got enough attention for what she did.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Totally totally. I mean, I'm 5'3" and not exactly big, but I always end up feeling like I could stand to hit the gym a few more hours a day and skip a meal or two after looking at Mira (or any actress) for a while.

...Which is part of why I gave up the idea of acting as a career a long time ago. I like having a life, and I'm rather fond of eating and, you know, being allowed to keep what I eat down. >_>

The posture and physical presentation thing is, IMHO, one of the first signs of a truly first-rate actor. Everybody can do facial emotion. Most people can do voice. Body? I know I was always absolute shit at it when I did theater, so I'm fascinated by actors who have it down and can do it like the art-form it is.

You mentioned you've seen Pan's Labyrinth, earlier, so I have to geek slightly - the gentleman who plays the Faun in that? Also the same fellow who plays the Pale Man (the icky thing with the eyes in the hands), and an absolute ton of other parts in Guillermo Del Toro's movies. He's a physicality genius. The stuff that guy does... ♥

People always rave - quite rightly - about Peter and Andreas' work on the show, but I think Mira never got enough attention for what she did.

God, no. Far be it from me to take attention away from Peter and Andreas - they were both flat-out amazing in B5 - but Mira doesn't get half the credit she should. She carries so much of the exposition and long speeches, making them sound natural and comfortable, and she does a lot of the emotional heavy lifting, particularly in scenes that... to be frank, are not some of JMS's best work. Add to that the fact that she pulls off an actually strong female character in a way that makes a lot of the fake 'strong' woman characters in TV and cinema look like Barbie dolls? She's totally one of my heroes. ♥

Edited because I can't keep my clauses straight, apparently. I blame a bit of white wine.

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

My sister totally has a crush on that guy. I guess he was also one of the elves in Hellboy 2? I have heard quite a bit about his beautiful, beautiful body, heh.

My absolute favorite example of someone acting with their whole body, and I'm assuming you'll be familiar with it, is Billy Boyd in Return of the King. When Gandalf is comforting Pippin with the tale of the far green country under a swift sunrise? The whole time Pippin's listening, you can see his pulse in his neck. And it is just beating away like a mofo. Like, that's not something you fake. You can't just walk up to set and be like, I am going to make my heart beat faster.

Anyway, yeah, I have such a girlcrush on Mira, it's ridiculous. I've actually been sitting and watching videos on YouTube of her Croatian movies and interviews, and I don't have a clue what's going on.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Iiiinteresting. The elf guy (this one in the icon?) is a different guy - the guy I'm thinking of did play Abe Sapien, a chamberlain-thingy, and the Angel of Death in that movie, though. TMI, I'm sure - it's one of my favorite movies. Doug's a bit too OMG!SKINNY for my taste to be going on about his body, but he's a briiiiilliant actor, so I do admit to sharing your sister's crush if he's the one she's talking about (...or, hell, the other one, too - he's a lovely, lovely fellow). ♥

I'll have to pay attention to that next time I watch Return of the King - I hadn't noticed that before, but it does sound like one of those beautiful moments of acting. Not to mention awesome cinematography, to be able to show something like that.

Lol. My crush is more on Delenn than on Mira (I am odd, and have strange attachments to fictional characters, yes), but Mira? Gorgeous beyond belief, regardless.

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

You're right! She does have a crush on that guy, not the skinny guy! I think I just remembered "strange looking guy in Del Toro movie" and that was all. But skinny guy played Abe Sapien, right? Love what he does with his hands. Crazy!

I have a crush on Delenn, too. Don't get me wrong. Equal opportunity crusher over here.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Yup. Del Toro uses lots of very fun actors. :D

And hooray for equal opportunity crushing.

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

I'm still trying to work out what sort of wacky logic led Sheridan to decide Lennier, of all people, should show the reporters around the station... or why he let them film down below... The episode often seemed to be veering away from 'reporters are evil' to 'Sheridan has no idea how to manage public relations'.

Re: Catherine Sakai - according to "To Dream in the City of Sorrows", she actually got sucked into the time-rift before Sinclair went back in time, while on a mission with him to stop Shadow agents from destabilizing the rift. It's a bit contrived, but not entirely random.

The Dreaming - I assumed the guide was meant to guide the dreamer back to reality... I guess maybe you actually want someone inexperienced because someone who's been through the Dreaming too often might end up disconnected from reality themselves?

In hindsight, Atonment really should have been a side-plot to the Minbari Civil War - maybe something like Delenn needing to prove her loyalty to her clan to negotiate on their behalf....

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I can understand sending Lennier with them - in the episode itself Sheridan says that he's using the truism that Minbari don't lie except to spare another's honor to his advantage, because ISN will theoretically know that whatever Lennier says is the truth (...although, really "except to spare another's honor" would surely include Sheridan's honor, or, more to the point, Delenn's, so if they were smart they still wouldn't believe a word out of his mouth), but yeah, letting them go into Down Below was pretty damned stupid. Giving them free access everywhere else on the station, as well. And not warning the senior staff to watch their mouths around them. And so on. I've worked in tiny museums that were better at dealing with PR than Sheridan shows himself to be in this episode. :P

I'm at once relieved to know Catherine got sucked back in time separately... and a bit horrified that all time rifts appear to go back to the first war. Maybe it's something like the fabric already being worn through in that area, but... "contrived" is definitely a good word for it.

Very good point about the Dreaming, that makes perfect sense how you describe it.

And as for Atonement in general, yes. That would have been much less annoying.

[(Anonymous)]

I realize this is an ancient post by LJ standards, but I'll comment on Atonement on the off chance I'm not the last person to ever land on this page.

At this point, Delenn as Ranger One has her own private army. Her clan might have the political pull to strip her of her ambassadorship, or otherwise make her life difficult, but keeping Delenn on Minbar against her will isn't an option unless Callenn is able to face down the Rangers. Personally, I don't see that as a fight he has any hope of winning.

JMS did take a lot of flak for this episode because of Delenn's increasing passivity throughout season 4. Seeing her reduced from a credible leader to very little more than Sheridan's GF is not what most Delenn fans had signed up for and were were not pleased about it.

The canon word from JMS is that Delenn never told Sheridan about her role in starting the E-M war.

The total lack of consequences for Delenn for what she did definitely rubbed me the wrong way. One episode doesn't cut it for what was clearly the defining moment of her life and a decision that changed the face of the galaxy forever. Putting this revelation so late in the series and wrapping it up in a poorly-conceived frame that virtually strips Delenn of all agency does not do the revelation the justice it deserves.

There is a symmetry between Atonement and The Illusion of Truth. In TIoT, Sheridan encounters a racist twit on Sheridan's turf and has his head handed to him. In Atonement, Delenn encounters a racist twit on his own turf and hands him his head. Both episodes should probably be viewed as bookends.