o_O

[rivendellrose]

On the ongoing list of "things that make me go 'bwuh?'"...

When there is a knocking at our door at 9:30 in the morning on a Sunday, and they turn out to be very nice-looking, well-dressed young men, I am not exactly thrilled. Not (entirely) because my hair is a wreck and I look like I just rolled out of bed... no, it's because my first instinct on seeing well-dressed unknown folks at the door is "shit, how do I get rid of the proselytizers?"

No offense to religious folks of whatever denomination, but when I'm not awake, I am not in the mood to have a religious discussion. If I want to convert, I promise you that I can find numerous people to discuss my options with, on my own. There is no need to make a house-call. Thnxbye.

Just as I was contemplating creeping back down the stairs before they noticed me, I thought "wait... they're wearing khakis and colored shirts, and no ties, so they're not Mormon missionaries... and the Jehovah's witnesses always send coed groups. WTF?" Good thing, since it turned out they were friends of the sublet-guy's. Poor J got woken from a dead sleep (by me), and came out to a hearty "Hey, get some nice clothes on, we're going to church."

Me: Gee, nice of you to decide that for him! Weeeeeeird. *Scurries back downstairs, rubbing messed up hair*

Comments

[narsilion.livejournal.com]

Couldn't they have at least called so he could make an excuse have some time to get ready?

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I think I overheard them saying that they did, but his phone was off. Which, to me, would indicate it might not be the best day for going.

Nice icon, btw!

[narsilion.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I don't quite remember, but I think I got it from lidi? I got 3 from her the other day. They're all really nice. Here's another.

[coralia13.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad no one has ever done that to me - both the waking me up to go to church thing, and the good-looking guy showing up at my door when I haven't had time to do myself up thing. Well, the latter has happened a couple of times, I guess. Hazards of a co-ed dorm.

When I was born, my parents decided that they'd take me to a different religious meeting every week (once I was old enough to understand, of course), so I could choose a religion for myself. They never could motivate themselves to do it. Now we just hang around the house on weekends, making fun of Mormon undergarments and the religious right. I ended up finding my religion in the movie "Dogma."


(This is the most religious icon I have.)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. Co-ed dorms. I think the best thing about them is that you eventually get used to being seen in all manner of states by all manner of people, and, after time, it just doesn't frigging matter anymore. *g*

My mom took me to Sunday school for a while when I was tiny... I'm told that I caused some trouble by asking where the dinosaurs fit into the story. I really liked dinosaurs when I was little. And finding one's religion in Dogma is a perfectly good way to find religion! I love that movie. ♥

The undergarments... I grew up with a bunch of Mormon girls, two of my aunts are Mormon, etc. But I honestly did not believe the undewear until I went on a reading spree about the Mormon church, once I'd gotten to college. I always thought my friends were having me on, you know? Yank the outsider's chain a little. But no. Sacred underwear. *Shakes head*

(Delenn will have to stand in for mine. She's religious....)

[fourseat.livejournal.com]

Can you tell me about this sacred underwear? I dated a Mormon for a few weeks and while he wasn't the most observant, I know sometimes he wanted to be. His underwear was pretty standard, though.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

It's an adult thing, as I understand it - guys get it when they go on mission, and for the most part girls get it when they get married (I'm not sure about girls who go on mission... possibly they do, too - by the time my Mormon friends were going off on mission, I'd mostly cut off ties with them. I don't believe in missionizing, and we were already having other arguments of the sort that I really didn't want to deal with).

Basically, they're like long-johns. I've only seen women's (on my aunt), and they seem to be basically high-collar, long-sleeved, white... they cover frigging everything. As a kid, I just figured my aunt had nutso-conservative taste in pyjamas. Lo and behold, that's the underwear.

[narsilion.livejournal.com]

I believe, though I may be wrong, that you only get the sacred underwear if you are married in the temple. Isn't that correct?
and, yeah, thin long johns.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you're probably right on that one. All the married Mormons I know had their weddings in the church, so I don't have any other frame of reference, but that does sound right for the culture overall.

[fourseat.livejournal.com]

A-ha... and since this kid has been putting off his mission for two years (and possibly forever since he can't get his act in gear to even get to community college), he doesn't have it yet.

I also heartily disagree with missionizing. Generally, I quite dislike religions who believe that "everyone else" is going to hell because they believe the "wrong" things. If that were true across the board, we'd all be in someone else's hell, no matter what we believed. In middle school I had this friend who was a sweet girl, but honestly believed that she wouldn't see me in heaven because I don't think Jesus was Teh Savi0r. I'm sure she told me because she cared about my immortal soul, but it still kinda hurt to be told in every conversation: "No offense, but my religion believes that you [a Jew] and [another friend, an atheist] and other people like you are going to h-e-double-hockey-sticks."

[narsilion.livejournal.com]

Love your icon!

[fourseat.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's my understanding, at least. I'm surprised he hasn't just gotten married yet, if that's the case. That seems to be the way most Mormon kids go if they can't get college or mission to work for them.

I've always rather felt that anyone who can't even say the name of the horrible final destination they expect I'll end up in probably has more issues than a bit of passive aggression. ;)

And yeah, I had some friends like that, too. Some of my Mormon and Christian friends were/are really good about it, but others... This one girl I was fairly friendly with once told me, "I know when it's all over that you'll realize I was right." I laughed, because I thought she was joking - what the heck kind of person says that in all honesty?

[fourseat.livejournal.com]

Married?! Oh, boy. That's a long way away. Socially, he's about the level of a 13-year-old. He was in some deep love with a girl he met online for a few months, and they'd gone as far as to imagine their three children's lives up to college... but then that didn't work out.

I think he wants to go to college but just doesn't have the motivation. He has a billion ideas and doesn't follow through on any of them. Talking to him usually just isn't fun for that reason.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Seems to me like it's often those exact people who end up married earliest - the ones you'd least expect, and the ones who really, really shouldn't yet.

[coralia13.livejournal.com]

Very true about the co-ed dorms thing. Although, the first weekend at college I felt at home enough not to put on make-up, my friends kept asking me if I was sick, because I looked really unwell...

When we first moved to Connecticut (I was about five), my parents wanted me to make friends before I started school. One of the town librarians suggested a Presbyterian day camp, promising it "wasn't very religious." I came home and told my parents I was very upset because I knew they were going to hell because they didn't go to church, and asked if Jesus would be angry if I swore in my head. (Don't know what I thought a swear word was at the age of five, but the point remains the same.) I didn't complete the camp, although I did win a Bible for memorizing the Biblical stories better than all the other kids.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

*Laughs* I get the same thing when I go without makeup - I'm naturally very pale, but my skin flushes at practically nothing, so if people are used to seeing me with foundation (which I almost always wear), and then see me without... I get a lot of "is everything okay? Are you sick?" type questions.

I came home and told my parents I was very upset because I knew they were going to hell because they didn't go to church.

See, that's the thing that scares me the most about religions that take the "my way or the highway" kind of route (ie, most of them). They practice this sick sort of emotional blackmail, using kids against their parents, parents against their kids, friends against friends... it's disgusting to me. Just a really twisted, backhanded, horrible way of playing the game. If people come to a religion of their own free will and decision, that's one thing. But blackmailing them into it, and scaring innocent people into thinking that their loved ones will go to hell if they don't convince them to convert... that seems just plain wrong to me.

[coralia13.livejournal.com]

I hear you - the whole idea of missionaries and such just pisses me off. I mean, I'm all for the idea of helping those in need, but so often it seems like a form of bribery or black-mail - "Look, I helped you; renounce your false idols and join the one true faith!" The condescention of it is what gets me. It's too bad, because it gives certain religions (I'm think now of Christianity, but I think all the major organized religions are/have been guilty of it to some extent at some point in history) such a bad rep. I have such strong prejudices against Christianity, and though I tell myself it's just the "bad Christians" I don't like, I can't say that I don't make judgements on someone based on their religion. SUCH a hairy issue.

Yeah, I'm pale, too - actually, my eyebrows and eyelashes are very light blonde, so if I don't wear eyebrow pencil and mascara, my face looks completely washed out. It is not hot.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Exactly. My dad and stepmom's church does a lot of work with this one tribe in Ghana, because their chief goes to their church when he's in the US. The groups do wonderful things over there, but the cultural and imperialist implications of the whole thing drives me nuts.

I have such strong prejudices against Christianity, and though I tell myself it's just the "bad Christians" I don't like, I can't say that I don't make judgements on someone based on their religion.

I know exactly what you mean. Religious studies are a major hobby for me, but I have to admit that because of the fact that Christianity is what gets stuffed down one's throat as an American, I can tolerate almost any other religion much more easily than I can that one. Specifically Protestantism, oddly - Catholicism was pretty uncommon where I grew up, so I have none of those biases against Catholics, and have always said that if I had to convert to Christianity, I'd choose to be a Catholic.

[coralia13.livejournal.com]

Have you ever read The Daily Show's America: The Book? I was flipping through a copy in a second-hand store today and read: "Jesus Irony #639: Despite Jesus's strong advocacy of turning the other cheek, more people have been killed 'in his name' than any other person in history - including Hitler!"
I think that's a big part of my bias against Christianity - the rampant hypocracy. That's probably in other relgions, too, but it's like you say - being in America, the religion we hear about over and over (and over and over) is Christianity. Catholicism was pretty common where I grew up (lots of Italians in CT), as was Protestantism (think, the Pilgrims), so I never differentiated much when it came to disliking the religion as a whole. The weird thing is, most of my friends are Christian (mostly not very devout or right-wing about it), and I have no problem with them... Classic prejudice, I guess: "Well, Sally's okay, but I'm sure the rest of them are awful." If only creeps in the media (and in history) would stop going around and giving the rest of Christianity a bad name.

[dreamstrifer.livejournal.com]

Here is my most religious icon... *ahem*

I totally had Jehovah's Witnesses yesterday. An older lady and this 6 year-old ADORABLE little boy. I wanted to snatch him up and go "AWAY! away from this cult, darling child!" Of course, Lutheran's not much better, but hey, at least we get potlucks anytime we get together (and we don't make 6 year old boys go door to door)...

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Poor Delenn is getting over-used today. It's her or the candle, as far as religious icons go...

Oh dear. Yes, they always have a small child with them, it seems. Which is really kind of clever and vicious at the same time, as of course only a real nasty person would be rude in front of an adorable small child. Or an old lady, for that matter.

As a rule, I try to have no complaints about any religion that make an active effort to convert, or to actively fight for moral reforms that I disagree strongly with. That means that the door-to-door religions, by their nature, get a little bit on my shit list. I'm polite, but I try to get rid of them as quickly as possible. And yeah, kids raised in that kind of thing kind of freaks me out. It shouldn't, I suppose, but it does.

[reve-lucide.livejournal.com]

Heh. As soon as you said "9:30 in the morning on a Sunday, and they turn out to be very nice-looking, well-dressed young men" -- I was convinced they were Mormon missionaries. You got off lucky, m'dear. :P

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

We think alike. *g* And yes, I certainly did. Although, Mormons are actually the group I'm best at getting rid of. Somehow, they don't seem to expect the answer to "have you heard of the Book of Mormon?" to be "Yup! I grew up with a bunch of Mormons, actually - I usually ask them if I have any questions, but thanks anyway!"

Totally throws them off their planned script, and in the time it takes them to restart on a new track, I can usually find a polite but efficient way to get them out of my path. :D

[reve-lucide.livejournal.com]

Heh. Sounds like you've got it figured out already. I just sputter and am flabbergasted and can't speak coherently. I'm just not used to missionaries approaching me -- one of the nice things about Salt Lake (small victory, I know) is that the missionaries usually leave you alone. I guess they figure if you live in SLC and you're not Mormon, you've at least got a pretty good idea what they're about and are probably making a conscious choice to not be Mormon. They can't quite convince themselves that you "just haven't heard about it yet" ... and so they leave you alone.

Notice I said usually, though. :P

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

That one, at least. I'm pretty used to Mormons - I went to a Mormon girls' camp with a group of Mormon (and a few other non-Mormon) friends, when I was fourteen. I have a much harder time with other religions. Maybe they're more sneaky or something, I don't know.

I guess if it's as high-population as I think it is, they pretty much figure whoever's going to be converted already has been. Besides, you probably don't get a lot of missionaries over there. We don't get a lot out here, either, but considering SLC is kind of Mormon Central, they probably don't waste their resources on conversions in-city.

It's always 'usually' with religious groups. :P As in 'usually' my stepmom and dad don't make an effort at converting me, either... and yet, they bring it up still. The last time they brought it up actively, I was tipsy - I laughed at them, flat out. You'd think that'd give them the hint....

[reve-lucide.livejournal.com]

Girls camp! Yes! I went to a Mormon girls camp with one of my friends when I was about twelve, and I was completely blown away by the oddness of the whole thing (and I am in no way unfamiliar with Mormon things). One night, we were sitting around the fire, and one by one all the girls started crying and talking about Jesus and how they had never felt him as strongly as they did in that moment, and I was like, "Uh ... wtf? I don't feel anything. We're twelve years old, for chrissakes! You don't feel anything either!"

It was weird, needless to say, and that was about the last of me and Mormon activities.

Are your stepmom and dad Mormon, then? Or just some other pushy Christian religion?

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Oh god, testimonial night. I felt kind of bad, because at my camp it... umm... kind of got cancelled halfway through because one of the girls fell/jumped off a bench wrong/something like that, and dislocated her knee. Why do I feel bad? Because I was so. frigging. relieved.

I'm a horrible person. But ohmigod, I couldn't take anymore of the "and then the love of the lord came upon me!!!" crap.

No - my aunts on that side are both Mormon, but my stepmom is just a regular old... some kind of Protestant. I don't keep track. And my dad (staunch atheist all my life) converted when he started dating her. Which was... lemme think... five years ago. Just - boom. One day, normal dad. Next day, I ask what he's doing on Sunday and he says "well, going to church," as though that's what he's always done. Needless to say, it was a tricky transition. Especially when I was Most Definitely Not Warned that there was going to be praying over the whole family (him, my stepmom, my stepbrothers and myself) at the wedding.

They're not exactly pushy, I should be more fair - they're just not aware that I'm not comfortable with things like prayer before meals, being prayed over, etc. I'm not sure how that's a surprise, given the way my dad raised me, but he seems to have some kind of weird mental block where he doesn't realize what an abrupt 180 the change seemed like to everyone but him. I've tried talking to him about it, but he claims it was a natural transition, had nothing to do with my stepmom, and I have a hard time swallowing that one.

[reve-lucide.livejournal.com]

Urgh! Prayer before meals! My least favorite Mormon thing. *sigh*

And my father-in-law (is that right? I think so. Father of my husband?) always asks my husband to say the prayer, and he's like "WTF? Really? Are you sure? ME?!?"

GIRLS CAMP! And those stupid workbooks they gave you, and you had to have shit signed off by the leaders and UGH, why did I go?!?

Sorry. Still a little traumatized, obviously, especially when I've had a gin and tonic or two. :P

[tonsai.livejournal.com]

okay, this has nothing to do with anything, but i was just browsing craiglist and came across this job posting and thought: "huh, jen should maybe quit her job and move to oakland and do this."

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/wri/190219562.html

heh!

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

o_O Ohhhhh, I wish I could take that. That sounds so awesome! If it were in Seattle, I'd just apply anyway - I can't break my lease here and leave my roommates hanging, but wow that sounds like one hell of a job!