rivendellrose: (sunflowers)
[personal profile] rivendellrose
I got my passport today! I'm absurdly happy about this, despite the fact that the picture is (of course) hideous. I tried so hard to get a good one. But... whatever. ID photos are pretty much destined to be hideous, so I suppose it doesn't really matter. I'm just bitter about the fact that my one ID photo that was actually pretty ended up being my most short-lived - it got broken in my pocket and had to be replaced barely three years later. *Sighs* One of the best pictures ever taken of me.

Anyway. Have been reading a lot of fanfic lately...

(Why no, I'm not procrastinating on my own fic-writing... I'm practicing good academic habits by researching the field before I spend too much energy writing on a subject that someone else has already covered. And it's already saved me some trouble, since last night I discovered not one but two fics dealing quite handily with a subject I thought had somehow been neglected. So clearly this is a good idea. Riiiiiiight.)

...And it occurs to me to make a note of something that once (when I was about 15) seemed very natural to me.

Why is it that fanfic-writers seem to regard rape as the best possible plot device? Is it just a case of "hey, I'm trying to think of something horrible to have happen to this character, and it just so happens that rape is the worst I can imagine" or is something else at work here? I ask because I had previously assumed the prior theory (particularly based on innumerable experiences with hurt/comfort fics and rape of the rival/enemy-slash variety - see HP fanfic for endless iterations on the theme), but this last fic just kind of jumped out and grabbed me in a Very Bad Way, as did the fic prior to it that dealt with the same theme. Prior to this was a piece of Firefly fiction around which there's something of a controversy - supposedly it was based on a plot concept that was intended for filming but never finished due to the end of the series, and which after the plot concept was leaked was made into fanfic. I remember thinking as I read both the concept and the fic that followed, "no, I cannot see this happening. I can't see Joss doing this."

Other Joss-verse fans will perhaps understand why these feelings surprise me. It's not as though the man has delicate sensibilities about what he does to his characters.

And yet.

The idea that Inara would go into a meeting with a client armed with some sort of... something that would poison the 'gentleman' once he'd had sex with her (specifically, in the fic, as punishment for abuses that he put other companions through), and then would somehow be kidnapped by the Reavers directly after this assignation and summarily gang-raped, thus killing all the Reavers so that she could be rescued by Mal & co., just seems a little bit beyond Joss's usual brand of torture. Why is that?

This brand of torture hinges on the fact that Inara is a woman, and hinges on her sexuality as the only power available to her (and to the other companions).

Nothing that I've seen in Joss-verse so far indicates a similar focus on female sexual power as the be-all and end-all of female agency. Think about it. When Nandi and her cohorts run into trouble with Rance Burgess, do they kill him while he's at his fun? Do they pretend to be cowed by him only to poison him through some tricky companion concoction? No. They call in favors, hire some guns, and fight the man face to face, even though it results in the death of several of their number. Similarly, it absolutely beggars belief that a powerful organization like the Companion's Guild would have no better way of punishing a latter-day Green River killer than by sending in another of their number to be abused and possibly murdered. The whole reason that men have traditionally gotten away with killing prostitutes in America and England is that they are legally and socially vulnerable. The entire idea behind the Firefly-verse Companions is that they are socially accepted and held in high regard. They are a guild - they have power. I see no possible reason that they could not simply turn this bastard over to the proper authorities, and a plot device to the contrary serves no purpose other than to put Inara in an intensely compromising situation... which, in this story, is only the beginning of her sexual torment.

In the other fic, the one that I read just a few days ago, the conceit is that a powerful warlock arrives in Sunnydale at the beginning of the second season and ends up fighting Giles for Jenny's affections. A slightly Victorian/medieval concept, but otherwise inoffensive and mildly entertaining, I thought, and at the beginning it was handled well enough, particularly in terms of Giles' insistence that Jenny could handle herself just fine against the unwanted suitor. Said warlock decides that his best bet is to cast a bizarre sort of lingering-weakness-and-then-death spell on Giles, complete with a provision against his being able to have sex (yes, it's at this point that I really should have known something was slightly rotten in the state of Denmark - I plead the late hour and non-intercourse nice passages of smutty Giles)... and eventually his state of weakness is such that Jenny, independent and strong-minded woman that she is, decides she can't handle just watching him waste away while he tries to figure out a solution.

So she goes and offers herself sexually to the warlock in return for him backing off the spell on Giles.

It was at this point that I realized the last several pages of reading might have been a mistake on my part. But... there was still time for a reprieve, right? I mean, the natural thing to do would be to use this to put the guy off his watch and then attack him, or at least pull a Judith-and-Holofernes and kill him while he's distracted and post-coital. Nope. After being three times raped while a weak and miserable Giles experienced the whole ordeal second-hand through a magical link set up by Mr Warlock Bad Guy, Jenny suffers herself to be kicked out of his home, and stumbles back to Giles' place. I suppose this is meant to be a moment of noble sacrifice in the name of love, but it totally failed on me. I guess I was too busy feeling ill. Anyway, the end result of the fic is that the whole thing has become more about Giles' magic (dark bad chaos magic that is so powerful he can't access it without potentially destroying the whole city...) than about Jenny, and there is some degree of Last Battle between Giles and the Warlock, after which Giles disappears, then reappears some months later (during a thunderstorm...) brimming over with magic, after making a deal with the demon/god that the warlock had been borrowing power from.

I think we're meant to take this as a good ending. I, for one, was by now so frustrated that I could only think of one thing - this was all prior to "Passion." I'm not sure whether the writer simply hadn't seen that episode yet or whether it was meant to lead off into an AU of some kind... but either way, I couldn't help thinking that I preferred the canonical bad ending of Jenny Calendar to the fic-writer's good ending. Being chased and killed by a vampire, in the end, is a hell of a lot less harrowing. Once again, despite all the shit Joss puts his characters through, I submit that I honestly can't imagine him pulling something like this... even if he could get it past the censors. Maybe I'm being too generous to the old boy, but from what I've seen, he tends to stick with tortures that are pretty damned sex-equal. Breaking of fingers. Electrocution. Sharp pointy objects through the abdomen. I've been told enough about the rape in 6th or 7th season Buffy that I don't really think it applies in this case - it isn't a matter of torture, as I understand it, but of a bad relationship gone much worse. If that isn't the case, I apologize... but that's the impression I've gotten from not having seen it for myself. And that, in my opinion, is a slightly different issue. Not necessarily better or worse - just different.

I have no idea what conclusions I meant to bring to all of this. I think one of the things that's bothering me is that yes, I'm a child of the sorts of images that Naomi Wolf described in "The Beauty Myth" as, to some extent, having sex and danger/harm/submission mixed up together. Growing up reading sci-fi (and watching) and fantasy, I do recall a number of situations of abuse, capture and the like that were sexualized to the extent that they affected my impressions and predilections. And so, on some level, I'm one of those hurt/comfort-is-sexy kind of girls, and I do still occasionally struggle with the issue of rape or slave fantasies as counter to feminism, etc. This kind of stuff, though... totally different level, IMHO. Maybe I'm just getting prissy as I get older or something, or maybe I just got unaccountably irritated because of a sudden, late-in-the-text accumulation of things I hated about that second fic; I don't know.

I can't think of any other worthwhile conclusions or subjects to raise, and my hands feel like they're frozen. I need to pop my laundry into the dryer and go upstairs. I'd be interested to hear what other fannish folk think of all this, though.

Date: 2007-02-22 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cassildra.livejournal.com
This isn't something that's about fandom, so much, but something I see commonly with role-playing original characters--most Mary Sues will trivialize rape by using it in their character backstories, and it pisses me off to no end. "See, that's why she's a lesbian now, lulz"

Date: 2007-02-22 09:21 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (New Earth)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Iiiiinteresting. I hadn't thought of the RP angle, but that sounds about right. It's interesting how rape is regarded as sort of an... automatic plot device for drama in these situations, in the way that another traumatic event wouldn't necessarily be used.

Date: 2007-02-22 10:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cassildra.livejournal.com
I'd love to see something like, say, a tsunami wiping out one's entire family used. Or a hurricane, tornado, earthquake, what have you. A natural disaster for once, instead of "he forced himself upon her, his phallic imagery hard and waiting to violate her" or something else incredibly lame.

Something but rape, roleplayers. It isn't like rape victims go through enough already--bad roleplayers have to fuck it up for the victims, too. Yay trigger.

Date: 2007-02-23 12:25 am (UTC)
ext_18428: (eowyn)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Yes, but let's remember - this is all an outgrowth of the traditional Poor Hero(ine) whose parents are dead and whose guardians abused her and whose teachers are all mean and whose peers hate her because she's so beautiful and smart and perfect, and then her best friend dies of consumption and her dog gets hit by a train, and, and, and, and, and.

It's just the details that change. Torment is romantic, and all that. :P

Date: 2007-02-23 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cassildra.livejournal.com
True. And it's getting kind of old. x.x

Date: 2007-02-25 06:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lokapala.livejournal.com
May I insert a bit of offtopic here?

I'm not sure that the traditional Poor Hero(ine) is, well, Poor, because it's romantic. More like because it's realistic.
One does not wake up one day and decide that the world is a bad place and why shouldn't s/he go out and right the wrongs? There has to be something that pushes people towards 'hero-dom'. Or heroism.
Prince Siddhartha needed only to see poor, ill, old and dead folks. Most of us see those quite often and for some reason are not only not pushed towards enlightenment, but are scarcely moved =)
There is a degree of what ills and wrongs do wake people up, but the easiest imaginable and the most understandable is, of course, a wrong done to oneself or to her/his family. Thus the Poor Hero appears, I think.
(And that's why a hurricane wiping out the whole family won't work :D Except as background story for a weather scientist who swore to find the best way of early warning against these things...)

Date: 2007-02-26 06:00 am (UTC)
ext_18428: (heroes)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Very good point. The only problem I can see with it (purely for the sake of playing the devil's advocate!) is that in (traditional and/or fan-) fiction, this kind of explicitly personal tragedy seems only to make men go out and right the wrongs of the world, whereas it usually serves only to make women tragic.

On the other hand, that's probably just because too few female characters go out to right the wrongs of the world to begin with, for whatever reasons. ;)

Date: 2007-02-28 02:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lokapala.livejournal.com
Well, yeah... Then again - not to sound antifeminist or anything :D - it is realistic too. Now you can argue nature vs. nurture till Sun goes Nova, but whatever the reason, woman heroes are rare in real life too. Could be the practicality, actually =)

Date: 2007-03-01 02:26 am (UTC)
ext_18428: (zoe)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Mmm, nature vs. nurture... my very favorite of the all-or-nothing debates. ;)

You're right, of course - there are fewer women who are like that. But I do like the fictional examples that have turned up, so I hope that changes!

Date: 2007-02-22 09:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spazzychic.livejournal.com
The idea that Inara would go into a meeting with a client armed with some sort of... something that would poison the 'gentleman' once he'd had sex with her (specifically, in the fic, as punishment for abuses that he put other companions through), and then would somehow be kidnapped by the Reavers directly after this assignation and summarily gang-raped, thus killing all the Reavers so that she could be rescued by Mal & co., just seems a little bit beyond Joss's usual brand of torture. Why is that?

Regarding this: I was at LOSCON when there was a panel regarding this. The ONLY context that it was directly from the Joss verse is that Inara had one of these devices. She was going for it in her bag when the Reavers were attacking. This doesn't mean that she was ever gang raped by reavers or anything as horrifically trite as that. It was simply something companions had.

It was never meant, as far as the convention discussion went, to be some kind of Companion hand of power. It was supposed to be common knowledge enough to dissuade people from taking advantage of a companion, or for reavers.

Date: 2007-02-22 09:16 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (heroes)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
*Nods* I'd heard that interpretation of the device in "Serenity" before, as well, and I don't take any issue with it. Unfortunately, it got wrapped up in this supposed plot concept that was released/leaked somewhere along the line, and from there into the fic based on the concept.

It was supposed to be common knowledge enough to dissuade people from taking advantage of a companion, or for reavers.

And that makes perfect Joss-verse sense, particularly for companions traveling outside the core. I feel vindicated on this count.

Date: 2007-02-22 09:14 pm (UTC)
ursula: bear eating salmon (Default)
From: [personal profile] ursula
Two other things that I suspect are relevant

* The much older debate about rape in romance novels, particularly historical romance

* The Dan-Savage-esque idea that people sexualize all kinds of things they're afraid of as a way of dealing with it (his examples were "cuckold fetishists" who are into their girlfriends cheating on them, or gay guys who are into big buff policemen & firefighters & marines as a way of distancing a very real fear of getting beaten up).

Date: 2007-02-22 09:19 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (Default)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Yup, that first bit definitely plays in. Whatever people say about relative writing quality, I think it's reasonably clear that fan fiction is today's equivalent of romance novels, at least for a significant sub-set of the population. Hence, the same issues continue to arise.

As to the second, that makes a lot of sense.

Date: 2007-02-22 10:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cassildra.livejournal.com
And that is why I read romance novels very, very rarely.

Date: 2007-02-23 12:27 am (UTC)
ext_18428: (Antique Romana Doctor)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Anyhow, who needs romance novels when you have fanfic?

...Except for that whole teeeeensy little matter of a bare modicum of correct grammar and spelling, of course. Nothing puts me out of smut faster than a god typo.... >_>

Date: 2007-02-23 12:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cassildra.livejournal.com
I'm sorry, but you know the rule about "every time you criticize grammar/spelling you make a mistake yourself"? Um, your "god typo" was it. XD

Date: 2007-02-23 02:35 am (UTC)
ext_18428: (not paid enough)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
....Wow, I need to pay more attention when I type. *Headdesk*

And your icon? Is adorable.

Date: 2007-02-23 02:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cassildra.livejournal.com
*laughs* It happens to everyone.

And thanks much. :D Any and all of my icons are gankable, credit to maker, blahblah. <3

Date: 2007-02-23 08:01 am (UTC)
ursula: bear eating salmon (Default)
From: [personal profile] ursula
I only read Georgette Heyer novels, unless I'm in other people's bathrooms. But I don't think that's a considered intellectual stance ;)

Date: 2007-02-22 09:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pat-t.livejournal.com
It would probably surprise you to know that Methos gets raped repeatedly in fic. It drives me crazy. Especially in Evil!Duncan fic when he took the dark quickening. It seems like the only thing they can think of evil Duncan doing to Methos during this time. Of course, Duncan gets raped occasionally too, but not as much. Methos is such a victim in fanfic.

Date: 2007-02-22 09:30 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (New Earth)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Sadly, it doesn't surprise me at all. I did a general survey of Highlander fic when I first got into the fandom, and sure enough... not only does Methos get played as the 'woman' in a lot of slash fic, but for the most part he's the one who gets raped, abused, whatever. It seems to happen a lot in slash fiction, with the partner who's generally played as the submissive or feminine of the two getting the same kind of abuse that's generally held out for the female characters.

Date: 2007-02-22 09:33 pm (UTC)
ruuger: (Big Damn Hero)
From: [personal profile] ruuger
I've been told enough about the rape in 6th or 7th season Buffy that I don't really think it applies in this case - it isn't a matter of torture, as I understand it, but of a bad relationship gone much worse.

No, it has nothing to do with torture. I think the best description I've ever seen of the scene is "the reason why every relationship should have a safeword". Having been spoiled of the rape pretty much ruined parts of S6 for me because I was afraid it was going to be a case of "putting her back to her place", but when I finally saw the scene, I was positively surprised. I can't re-watch the scene because it's too disturbing, but it's very powerfull nevertheless.

And the rumours about the Inara gangrape just boggle me. I'd like to think that Joss wouldn't have done it because... I don't want to see something like that! I don't want to think that Joss & co would go through making a scene like that! And the reason is just what you said - the violence in Jossverse was never gendered (except in the S3 AtS episode "Billy" which I personally loathe, btw) and that was one of the things that made the shows what they were.

Date: 2007-02-22 09:39 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (Elphie and Glinda)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Okay, I'm relieved that my impression lives up to the reality of the scene. I'm still not looking forward to it (although in some sick sense I'm looking forward to watching how James Marsters handles it - in a scrap of interview that I stumbled across he mentioned that having to film that scene upset him very deeply, and I'm always interested to see how actors deal with tough situations in their art), but I'm much less worried than I was.

Exactly so. I continue to firmly believe it's a fan-created concept, and I don't anticipate that ever changing. The idea of Joss and his people stooping that low... it just doesn't fit.

("Billy", huh? I'll have to keep an eye open for that one... I've been delayed on AtS, but I'm still working on it!)

Date: 2007-02-22 09:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com
Rape and other forms of sexual and physical abuse are a kind of instaplot. It takes very little imagination on the (and I use the term loosely) author's part, and allows for all manner of angsting and emotional diarrhea on the part of the victim, which is something a frightening large number of fen seem to be addicted to.

See also [livejournal.com profile] ophidiae's Law of Badfic: "The degree to which a story will suck is directly proportional to the amount of egregious abuse heaped upon the main character's head."

Date: 2007-02-22 10:08 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (all love is unrequited)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Yes! That Law of Badfic is exactly the kind of expression I was looking for when I finished reading the most recent of the hellish fics. The worst was that since all the abuse was hidden away in the latter half of the fic, I completely wasn't anticipating it (or the badness that it indicated) - the first half of the fic was relatively inoffensive and reasonably acceptable. I wouldn't say it was well-written, but I've developed a tolerance for some degree of "blah" when I'm hunting for a particular pairing. So I was totally broadsided by the suck!

Date: 2007-02-22 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com
Stealth badfic! Yeah, those are the worst kinds of stories. My "favorite" was the AU I read where two characters who are NOT related in canon turn out to be brothers in the AU ... only you don't find out about it until well after the two have been shagging like minks. And no warnings on the fic at all for incest! I wanted to scrub my brain with a wire brush after that, and it made me very VERY leery of reading anything else by that author.

Also, have a link to the original Ophidiae's Law of Badfic post.

Date: 2007-02-23 12:23 am (UTC)
ext_18428: (elphaba wicked)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Damned sneaky badfic, creeping up on unsuspecting readers like us!

And lack of warnings. Oh god, the lack of warnings. Every time I start in a new fandom, it seems that I run across hordes of fics where I end up skittering upstairs, curling up on my couch, and whining to whatever housemates will listen to me about how people can't be buggered to just mark their damned fic appropriately. If something is marked as gen fic, I will assume there is no pairing involved! I will be shocked and appalled when I realize that I have (for the most recent example) accidentally stumbled onto a very very Electra-complex-y Buffy/Giles fic. Eagghh.

And a hearty yes to everything [livejournal.com profile] ophidiae said in that post. Dear gods, some of these writers have no brains whatsoever...

Date: 2007-02-23 01:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com
Some people take a positive delight in the lack of warnings. Of course, trying to get fen to agree on what warnings mean is a whole 'nother matter completely. I got taken soundly to task for daring to be upset by a rather graphic tentacle rape story I stumbled across that made no mention at all of rape (tentacle or otherwise) in the warnings and was, in fact, labeled Gen. Gen, I was sternly informed, merely means "no pairing", as opposed to "General Audiences", as I had always been led to believe. And since this story was not about a relationship between the main character and the Tentacle Monster, it was therefor not a pairing and Gen was the proper label for it.

Yeah, my brain hurt after that one, too. :P

Date: 2007-02-23 07:45 am (UTC)
ext_18428: (elphaba wicked)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Wow. That's officially the worst warning-lack that I've ever heard of. That... Gen? Totally does not just mean 'no pairing.' And even if it did, tentacle rape is one of those things that qualifies for an extra warning!

Oh people. They're so... special.

Date: 2007-02-23 08:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com
I actually had to go back and lock the post because it turned into this total flamewar worthy of famdom_wank about ratings in general, and rape-fic in particular. At one point, the same loon who took me to task for my definition of Gen accused me of trying to speak for all rape survivors simply because I said that I was sensitive on the issue of rape fic because I had been raped. How this was translated into me speaking for all rape survivors as opposed to just me, personally, I have no idea. Then again, I'm still trying to figure out how tentacle rape could possibly be considered gen fic by anyone with an IQ above bean-dip.

Date: 2007-02-23 05:54 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (lost soul)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Oh god. I can't stand when people overreact to stuff like that! Just because you say that something upsets you does not mean you're trying to speak for all ___ (insert minority/group/viewpoint here).

Bean-dip might be giving that person too much credit, from what you've said. I'm thinking 'dead stump.'

Date: 2007-02-23 06:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com
I was eventually forced to ban her from my fandom journal completely. Later, I learned that she had a rep for this kind of thing, and had been tossed from several LJ comms.

I also found out that my post had gotten linked in some sort of multi-fandom news journal, which explained why all these people who weren't even involved in that particular fandom, much less had read the story in question, showed up out of the blue and hijacked the post. :P

Date: 2007-02-23 07:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ursulakohl.livejournal.com
Heh, that totally sounds like an 18th-century novel, except that then the characters would probably turn out not to be brothers after all because they had been switched at birth.

Date: 2007-02-23 08:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] windrose.livejournal.com
You know, I could have handled that. And, to be honest, the only reason I kept reading was because I was sure it was going to turn out OK in the end, and the two would find out they were not really blood kin. Except, it turned out that they were blood kin ... and they decided to keep shagging, anyway.

Brain huuuurts.

Date: 2007-02-23 01:23 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ex_mrs260625
I suspect it's also to do with the idea that rape can hurt very deeply--handy for those h/c fics--without necessarily hurting too much physically. The character can then be helped by Teh Healing Cock without having to wait six weeks for the cast to come off or whatever. (Not that casts or internal injuries necessarily stop the badfic of Teh Healing Cock, but Teh Healing Cock can heal in exactly the same way Teh Hurting Cock hurt! How symbolically symmetrical or something!

In short, I dunno. Also, I keep spelling "teh" as "the", which defeats the whole point.

I had some big-time rape fantasies after being raped. Didn't write and post any--it was my private way of trying to deal with it, not a story, and at this point I can tell the difference--but I can see people doing so. (And, for someone who hasn't been raped, rape fantasies might be a safe way to try to deal with the fear of actually being raped.)

Date: 2007-02-23 02:39 am (UTC)
ext_18428: (New Earth)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
On one level, I understand the h/c thing, and I definitely understand rape fantasies as a way of dealing with fears. It just irritates me when rape is used as a plot device without consideration of the real issues at work (less about sex, more about power, etc), and particularly when for some reason a character (usually female in this case, though I suppose the same issue turns up in slash fic from time to time) is portrayed as having no recourse but to offer sex unwillingly. I've seen far too many fics that make it look like that's a woman's only solution in a bad situation, and it upsets and frustrates me.

Date: 2007-02-23 02:51 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] ex_mrs260625
I can certainly understand that. Particularly if the character is someone who outthinks or outfights her enemies regularly in canon, or even just knows when to go to friends for help. (The few "only solution is to offer sex unwillingly" things I've read, she isn't usually a prisoner, and she lies to those whom she would usually enlist to help her.) Even if she isn't the brains or brawn of the show, there's usually some course she usually follows when she finds herself or her friends in a bad situation, and submitting to sex against her will isn't usually it.

So aside from being icky, it's OOC. :0)

Date: 2007-02-23 05:57 pm (UTC)
ext_18428: (Default)
From: [identity profile] rivendellrose.livejournal.com
Exactly. One of the two examples this time was a character who, yeah, has a tendency to be the damsel in distress to some extent... but she's a non-combatant, and not dumb enough to put herself intentionally in situations beyond her abilities.

The other one has a knack for being the clever one who works the rest of the group out of disasters, so I just totally don't buy that kind of dumb coming from her.

*Shakes fist at OOC writers everywhere*

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