more B5 stuff

[rivendellrose]

So, recently we rewatched (...well, I rewatched - ninjascript is watching for the first time) "And the Sky Full of Stars." I love that episode - loved it the first time, love it even more now that I know what it's leading up to, but it got me thinking. And then tonight, we watched "Deathwalker."

It always bothered me first time around that, from the first time she sees Sheridan, Delenn seems so determined to fall in love with him. Up til then, I'd sort of of got the impression that she had a thing for Sinclair, but when he disappeared I'd assumed that I'd misunderstood or something, or at least that it wouldn't really be an issue. But here's the thing. Seeing it again, it's clear to me that I wasn't wrong the first time, that Delenn is showing some trend toward Sinclair. In this episode, she seems devoted to him, fascinated by him, and I've heard that in "In the Beginning" she swears to keep watch over him. Yet at the end of the season she decides to jump into the chrysalis, and when she wakes up she almost immediately decides that, no, Sheridan is the Human she's supposed to be linked with, just like that? WTF? In terms of the story, it makes okay sense, I guess - Delenn knows she will be linked to some Human, that's why she goes into her chrysalis, and presumably it doesn't particularly matter to her, on a certain level, which it is. But that does make the Epic Love of John and Delenn (which, against my will, I became rather invested in later in the series) a little bit problematic.

Also. In-series, we know that the Minbari first thought Sinclair to be the reincarnation of Valen. We later find out that he is Valen, no reincarnation required, and that Sheridan and Delenn are both in some way... shall we say, other parts of him. Other aspects of The One. Leaving aside for the moment the fact that I've always been a bit disturbed by the "Human guy goes back in time and becomes Jesus for these aliens" plot-line, where the heck, and taking into account that we know Delenn is descended from Valen (Sinclair), does that indicate that in the Minbari view of things, Sheridan is likely to be Sinclair (Valen) reincarnated?

Or am I just reading way too much into this because of my constant fascination with Minbari culture and religion?

On to Deathwalker, an episode I didn't particularly find all that interesting the first time around, but which I quite liked this time. Strangely, Kosh's business associate in "Deathwalker" reminds me weirdly of the Seventh Doctor. I think it's the hat and the bright colors.

...And was that a flash forward to "Comes the Inquisitor?" Holy freaking hell!

Oh. Or, on second thought, at the end of the episode, apparently not. Huh. Although this does appear to be the set-up for what would have been Talia's plot if she hadn't disappeared?

Sometimes this whole foreknowledge thing ain't all it's cracked up to be, that's all I'm saying. I feel like I'm jumping at shadows (...ha) half the time, wondering what things mean in terms of things that happen much later.

Comments

[websandwhiskers.livejournal.com]

You're making me sort of want to re-watch this . . but also sort of not. Because it was so impressive the first time (at least until S5), I'd hate to go back and be less than impressed.

(Though I talked a few friends into watching Millenium for the first time recently, and was definitely still impressed by that, so who knows.)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

The thing I'm noticing about B5 is that it is, at once, both less and more impressive the second time through. Less, because I know what's coming - things that are supposed to be shocking don't surprise me anymore, and a lot of the fake-outs and red herrings and so on just make me yawn, because I know how it's going to go down.

It's more impressive because I can see now all the subtle things at the beginning that lead into later plot points, and how everything at the beginning is pointing toward what will happen later. That's hazardous in the case of plotlines that suffer from major character shift (like Sinclair and Talia's plotlines), but it's fantastic for other things (like Londo, G'Kar, Lennier and Delenn, the Shadow War, and things like that).

[ariastar.livejournal.com]

sdlfdskjdsf. I love the idea that Sheridan is reincarnated Sinclair. It is tasty and kind of screwed up. (Also, you're making me want to ship Sinclair/Delenn/Sheridan. A lot.) Since I haven't hit s2 again yet, my early Sheridan/Delenn memories are somewhat hazy, but I do know that I instantly shipped them a lot harder than I'd shipped Sinclair/Delenn. I like the idea that maybe she was test-driving various humans who seemed to be in the right place, and was lucky enough that both of them might've been awesome and compatible.

I still like the Sheridan-is-reincarnated-Sinclair thing a whole lot, though.

I wish we'd been able to see Talia's plot. *sigh*

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

It is oddly appealing in a very Minbari, god-that's-screwed-up kind of way, isn't it? And let me join you in the faintly creepy threesome-shipping. I don't normally have the slightest interest in Sinclair, but I could totally get behind it if it pinged all those totally wrong issues with Valen and Delenn's prophecy and all that. And anyway, I love doing things that make Sheridan's head hurt, bless him. ♥

I like the idea that maybe she was test-driving various humans who seemed to be in the right place.

I have this mental image now of Delenn "trying out" every Human on the command staff. She's just determined enough to try, too.

I kind of do, too, but I've learned from making similar comments in the past that saying such things tends to lead to friends who Know Things about the fandom of old coming out of the woodwork and scaring me with campfire stories of what JMS originally intended to do. It can be a highly unnerving experience.

[ariastar.livejournal.com]

I love doing things that make Sheridan's head hurt, bless him. ♥

I too would be tempted to ship it on that justification alone. :D

If Delenn was to try out every human on the command staff, I'd vote she go for Ivanova, personally. With the forces of their awesome combined, they could get a lot done. And I think Delenn might even be able to heal a few of Ivanova's relationship issues, given time. (Not that I actually ship them at all, but I'm willing to ship almost anything in this show.)

Ahaha, I've already had a few people tell me those campfire stories. They're usually about the original Sinclair/Delenn plotline, though. Is the Talia one similarly scary?

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

Ahaha, I've already had a few people tell me those campfire stories. They're usually about the original Sinclair/Delenn plotline, though. Is the Talia one similarly scary?

AFAIK, the Talia plot was just that Ironheart's gift wound up giving her the powers that Lyta wound up getting from the Vorlons--and, of course, Talia got that plotline because Lyta left after the pilot. That's pretty straightforward telepath-swapping right there.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

...Wait, now I'm even more confused. Were both Lyta and Talia planned from the beginning, or is this a case of one telepath in the pilot, a replacement in the early series, and the original telepath being brought back later (presumably when the actress was available again, coincidentally after the second one was removed due to whatever reasons that I can't remember at the moment)?

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

The latter--there was something about Pat Tallman's agent not accepting the series offer, and then later when Andrea Thompson wanted to leave, they managed to work something out with Tallman. (Thompson wanted more screen time and wanted the episodes she was in to be more about her, and was getting impatient for the telepath stuff to play out. JMS' response was basically, "Sorry, can't do that." So they parted ways.)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Okay, that makes sense. Jeez, Thompson sounds like kind of a tough one to work with.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

They're usually about the original Sinclair/Delenn plotline, though. Is the Talia one similarly scary?

I had been about to reply "I dunno, but I'm sure if we wait a little while we'll probably have an answer." Looks like I was beaten to the punch. ♥

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

I kind of do, too, but I've learned from making similar comments in the past that saying such things tends to lead to friends who Know Things about the fandom of old coming out of the woodwork and scaring me with campfire stories of what JMS originally intended to do. It can be a highly unnerving experience.

*snrk!* SORRY! ;)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Don't apologize, I enjoy it! They really do make the most fabulous of fandom campfire stories. ;)

[ruuger]

I have this mental image now of Delenn "trying out" every Human on the command staff. She's just determined enough to try, too.

Why do you think she was watching cartoons with Garibaldi in "Soul Hunter, hmmm...? ;D

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Ohhh, wow. You're right, that totally works. You're making it more plausible in my head. Lol.

So how did we miss the time she tried out Susan?! ;)

[ruuger]

Well, she did seem strangely unaware of how human hair works for someone who had been studying Earth and humans for a while already... Maybe she did have a bad hair day, maybe it was all just an excuse to get Susan to come over ;)