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rivendellroseFear us, we are into Season 3.
Occupation and Precipice
Starbuck is being set up in the world's absolute worst case of Stockholm syndrome. Oh. My. God. I do not approve of this. I mean, okay, yes, I was a little grimly pleased by the fact that I'd totally called that the Cylons stole her ovary. But... really? Let me lay this out. Super-creepy stalker guy who thinks he has the power of prophecy and is some kind of religious zealot kidnaps young woman, keeps her in his house, feeding her and telling her he loves her and trying to convince her that she'll love him. Leave off the fact that she keeps actually killing him and he keeps right on coming back ("Honey, I'm home" --> so fucking creepy!), and you have pretty much every kidnap/brainwashing case EVER. This is not okay. I am so totally not okay with this. And then he brings in her child with him and expects this to make everything better? Um, no? How about no. I mean, don't get me wrong, cute kid, and it's sure as hell not her fault, but I nearly threw up when Starbuck took Leoben's hand at the end of "Precipice." DO NOT BE FALLING FOR THIS SHIT, STARBUCK. DO NOT.
And yes, you may all point and laugh at the difference between my reactions to Sharon and Helo versus Leoben and Starbuck, but THIS IS DIFFERENT. I recognize that they were both set-ups, but dude, Sharon more than proved that she was really helping Helo and not, you know, keeping him locked in a house in a seriously terrifying creepy way. Also, not getting a baby by stealing parts of his body. If she'd whacked off his testicle and impregnated herself with it, I assure you that I would not be waving the shipper-flag about their relationship.
Tigh is G'Kar... except he still hasn't learned anything. It's more like if G'Kar had got out of the Centauri prison and then said "All right - now we can finally blow the Centauri out of the sky properly this time!" I know people like him. I'm searching for the reason, I really am. I still think he's an annoying jackass who makes the wrong decisions every single time he's presented with the chance. I am pretty much solidly on Madame Airlock's side re: the suicide bombings. The bombing at the "police" graduation was perhaps a necessary evil, but bombing the marketplace? Way to come up with a plan that'll kill more civilians than Cylons, guys! What the hell!
Apollo... I have to say, in some light, I am very impressed by the makeup job they did on him here. Particularly when they show him without his shirt (very well-done, there, and it must've been a real pain in the butt application for both the artist and the actor). But in certain light/angles (particularly every time he's in Daddy!Adama's quarters talking to him), it just looks... well, like an Oompa-Loompa with chipmunk cheeks. Which, heck, maybe that's what the actor would look like if he gained the weight for real, you never know, but I found it very distracting at a few moments.
My intensely weird ability to recognize men by their profile alone strikes again - I thought the mystery man was Gaeta, and then as soon as we saw him in profile later in the episode I was like "AHA!" Bless. ♥
Caprica is still awesome. I love her little "he's with me" speech about Gaius, as much good as it did her, and I also loved the moment when Cavil (Cavil, right?) was all "we'll kill Gaius" and Gaius all of a sudden pays attention and is like "wait, WHAT?" Way to go, Gaius. Glad to see you're paying attention. He does make up slightly for this later on when he's crying and refusing to sign the execution order, but... yeesh.
Incidentally, Caprica's whole "if you'd ever been in love, you'd understand" response to (someone) asking her why she would do all of this for Gaius, I couldn't help responding out loud "Well, I don't know - it is Gaius. I'm not sure I get it, either..." I mean, really. Love's love, but this is also the most pathetic, self-serving creature in the entire universe. Caprica may be a mass-murderer, but I'm still given to thinking that she might deserve better than him.
Boomer... should probably have figured out on her own that going to talk to Callie in detention wasn't the smartest thing she could have done. Callie doesn't like you, sweetie. It's better to stay away. Especially if you're not going to actually do anything.
Daddy!Adama has finally forgiven Sharon! ♥ Yay! And she's got her cell all set up with a couch and a tea set and everything. That's unspeakably cute. I love her new, zen-ish attitude and hope it doesn't fade away too quickly. I'm sure it will once she finds out that her baby has been alive this whole time and they just stole her from her, because, um, yeah. That's going to be a big thing, I'm thinking. But until then, I would like a little time for happy for Sharon and Helo, please. And apparently they're married (I assume Adama officiated, which is a cute mental image), which does rather make me wonder "who isn't?" at this point. Daddy!Adama, apparently. And that's it. Huh.
Daddy!Adama gave Sharon back her uniform and rank and everything and is sending her on the mission! I cheered. ♥ So happy for her.
And oh, look - Ellen is going to ruin everything. Thank you, Ellen, for always providing me with a convenient person to blame who I already don't care about disliking. Same goes for stupid whatshisname the deck-hand who is now one of the Cylon police, because I've always hated that little bastard.
Occupation and Precipice
Starbuck is being set up in the world's absolute worst case of Stockholm syndrome. Oh. My. God. I do not approve of this. I mean, okay, yes, I was a little grimly pleased by the fact that I'd totally called that the Cylons stole her ovary. But... really? Let me lay this out. Super-creepy stalker guy who thinks he has the power of prophecy and is some kind of religious zealot kidnaps young woman, keeps her in his house, feeding her and telling her he loves her and trying to convince her that she'll love him. Leave off the fact that she keeps actually killing him and he keeps right on coming back ("Honey, I'm home" --> so fucking creepy!), and you have pretty much every kidnap/brainwashing case EVER. This is not okay. I am so totally not okay with this. And then he brings in her child with him and expects this to make everything better? Um, no? How about no. I mean, don't get me wrong, cute kid, and it's sure as hell not her fault, but I nearly threw up when Starbuck took Leoben's hand at the end of "Precipice." DO NOT BE FALLING FOR THIS SHIT, STARBUCK. DO NOT.
And yes, you may all point and laugh at the difference between my reactions to Sharon and Helo versus Leoben and Starbuck, but THIS IS DIFFERENT. I recognize that they were both set-ups, but dude, Sharon more than proved that she was really helping Helo and not, you know, keeping him locked in a house in a seriously terrifying creepy way. Also, not getting a baby by stealing parts of his body. If she'd whacked off his testicle and impregnated herself with it, I assure you that I would not be waving the shipper-flag about their relationship.
Tigh is G'Kar... except he still hasn't learned anything. It's more like if G'Kar had got out of the Centauri prison and then said "All right - now we can finally blow the Centauri out of the sky properly this time!" I know people like him. I'm searching for the reason, I really am. I still think he's an annoying jackass who makes the wrong decisions every single time he's presented with the chance. I am pretty much solidly on Madame Airlock's side re: the suicide bombings. The bombing at the "police" graduation was perhaps a necessary evil, but bombing the marketplace? Way to come up with a plan that'll kill more civilians than Cylons, guys! What the hell!
Apollo... I have to say, in some light, I am very impressed by the makeup job they did on him here. Particularly when they show him without his shirt (very well-done, there, and it must've been a real pain in the butt application for both the artist and the actor). But in certain light/angles (particularly every time he's in Daddy!Adama's quarters talking to him), it just looks... well, like an Oompa-Loompa with chipmunk cheeks. Which, heck, maybe that's what the actor would look like if he gained the weight for real, you never know, but I found it very distracting at a few moments.
My intensely weird ability to recognize men by their profile alone strikes again - I thought the mystery man was Gaeta, and then as soon as we saw him in profile later in the episode I was like "AHA!" Bless. ♥
Caprica is still awesome. I love her little "he's with me" speech about Gaius, as much good as it did her, and I also loved the moment when Cavil (Cavil, right?) was all "we'll kill Gaius" and Gaius all of a sudden pays attention and is like "wait, WHAT?" Way to go, Gaius. Glad to see you're paying attention. He does make up slightly for this later on when he's crying and refusing to sign the execution order, but... yeesh.
Incidentally, Caprica's whole "if you'd ever been in love, you'd understand" response to (someone) asking her why she would do all of this for Gaius, I couldn't help responding out loud "Well, I don't know - it is Gaius. I'm not sure I get it, either..." I mean, really. Love's love, but this is also the most pathetic, self-serving creature in the entire universe. Caprica may be a mass-murderer, but I'm still given to thinking that she might deserve better than him.
Boomer... should probably have figured out on her own that going to talk to Callie in detention wasn't the smartest thing she could have done. Callie doesn't like you, sweetie. It's better to stay away. Especially if you're not going to actually do anything.
Daddy!Adama has finally forgiven Sharon! ♥ Yay! And she's got her cell all set up with a couch and a tea set and everything. That's unspeakably cute. I love her new, zen-ish attitude and hope it doesn't fade away too quickly. I'm sure it will once she finds out that her baby has been alive this whole time and they just stole her from her, because, um, yeah. That's going to be a big thing, I'm thinking. But until then, I would like a little time for happy for Sharon and Helo, please. And apparently they're married (I assume Adama officiated, which is a cute mental image), which does rather make me wonder "who isn't?" at this point. Daddy!Adama, apparently. And that's it. Huh.
Daddy!Adama gave Sharon back her uniform and rank and everything and is sending her on the mission! I cheered. ♥ So happy for her.
And oh, look - Ellen is going to ruin everything. Thank you, Ellen, for always providing me with a convenient person to blame who I already don't care about disliking. Same goes for stupid whatshisname the deck-hand who is now one of the Cylon police, because I've always hated that little bastard.
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no subject
Date: 2010-10-13 11:44 pm (UTC)in [the New Caprica arc] Leoben is just a monster - brilliantly manipulative, but totally amoral and not even particularly effective. But then I watched Flesh and Bone right after it and, oh, I get it now. The last time he saw her she had tortured him, she had been willing to torture him to death. Even if she wasn't personally the one who killed him there had never been any intention of letting him live, and she knew that. The way she justifies it in the episode, over and over again, is that he is a machine and not a person and is therefore not deserving of any kind of rights or even honesty. She asks him to choose: be a machine and live, or be a human and die in pain.
In the New Caprica arc what Leoben does accomplish is to show Kara both his machineness and his personhood. He holds on to both ends of the challenge she gives him - he dies, over and over, and still lives, and still is human while he is alive. One point the show makes is that permanent death is part of what makes us human. He makes as clear as possible that he is not human in that way. But on the other hand, loving someone who won't love you back and wanting to do anything to be with this person no matter what...that's just such a frakking human thing to do. (Not necessarily good or moral, but human.) And at this point, if there is going to be any hope of humans and Cylons working together, Kara needs to see him, both the way he is human and the way he is not.
But, agreed, the ovaries thing is Not OK, even as a response to torture.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 12:00 am (UTC)Lol. I would certainly hope so! And let me reassure you that I wasn't reacting solely to your post the other day (which I still haven't read of course, argh, I'm going to have to do serious fandom-catching-up just as soon as I've actually finished this show!), but also to a general feeling I've seen around that people seem to... if not precisely like Leoben, at least to like him as a character.
I'm having that "really, but WHY?" reaction to people liking Tigh as well, to be fair. I assume both will be made clear in the fullness of
timethe series.But on the other hand, loving someone who won't love you back and wanting to do anything to be with this person no matter what...that's just such a frakking human thing to do.
Very true, and I do love that all the Cylons seem to be echoing that back to us in their own, sometimes horrifying, but very, very Human ways. Caprica with (to me inexplicably devoted) love for Gaius, Leoben with the crazy-stalker-love for Kara, Cavil and his manipulative-as-hell "relationship" with Ellen, and Boomer/Sharon with both Tyrol and Helo (IMHO, the closest we see to something that's actually faintly healthy, though her relationship with Tyrol clearly had some serious issues that would have needed resolving if they'd stayed together).
no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 02:23 am (UTC)I assume both will be made clear in the fullness of time the series.
Or not. I was just commenting that part of the awesome of BSG is how it managed to suggest that there were storylines happening offscreen that were way more interesting than anything we saw. People fill in the blanks in a lot of different ways depending on how you connect the dots.
As far as why I find Leoben fascinating...partly I'm despite myself compelled by his perverse and amoral insistence on being known and loved for what he is, in all his amorality and inhumanity. And on loving, even though he might not be capable of understanding what love means. Also partly I'm fascinated by the way he seems to be a true prophet - you've already seen his prophecy to Kara about Kobol come true - and what it means that someone like that could be a prophet in this universe. And I guess I also feel like Leoben and Kara are actually getting a kind of honesty out of each other that is rare in the human/Cylon relationship, even if they get there by torture and lies. It's that last reason that I'd like to see them interact more, in fic if not in canon.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 12:17 am (UTC)It's really fun reading your posts as you watch each episode. And at least you don't have to wait months between seasons (or even half seasons!) to find out what happens next the way those of us who watched it during the first run did! You can watch it straight through, no interruptions. That's the way to do it, really.
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Date: 2010-10-14 12:20 am (UTC)You can watch it straight through, no interruptions. That's the way to do it, really.
Gah, no kidding. I always appreciate that with series I watch after the fact, but with this one I just don't know how anybody coped! The cliffhangers are so awful! Another friend said that when I get to the gap between S3 and S4, I have to light a candle for everybody who waited 13 months... and you know, I think that's a pretty good idea. ;)
no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 01:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-14 01:45 am (UTC)A few of the things you're complaining about wrt these first two episodes of the season? Might be resolved to your satisfaction by Exodus PII. We'll have to see.
For me, Tigh is such a tragic character because he does always screw up and make the wrong call, and yet is profoundly honorable in that very specific way that people in the service can sometimes be. However much of a shit he can be, you know he would not hesitate for a second if he needed to sacrifice himself for his ship or his CO. Plus, Michael Hogan is amaaaaazing. S3 is when the fan cries of "why doesn't he have an Emmy?!" started ringing out.
When Apollo's in the towel and turns to look at himself in the mirror and you see how fat he is? There's no glass in that mirror - on one side is Bambi with his fat face make-up, and for the abdomen shot it's just...some guy. Some fat guy. Camera angle trickery! I love that shit.
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Date: 2010-10-14 02:22 am (UTC)Tigh is tragic, and you're right that he's deeply honorable in his own way. I think the reason I dislike him so much is that he clearly wants to be good... just not enough to actually do good. Every single time he has the option, he lets something stupid sideline him into doing exactly the wrong thing, and he seems to know that's what he's doing! ...This may be a case of me just not coping well with a character who is truly and terribly realistically flawed. And, yes, played by an absolutely phenomenal actor, which just makes the whole thing more heart-breaking.
Okay, I feel much better about that shot in the mirror, then. I don't know why it didn't occur to me that was what they were doing, but I was seriously sitting there going "wow, the makeup in this bit looks really right, why does the later bit look so sort of meh?" Clever clever clever camera work!