the writing is not being easy

[rivendellrose]

You know that thing when you've finally dragged yourself out of a few weeks of not being able to write anything, and you've managed to write most of a story, but then when you get to where the end ought to be you just sort of keep staring blankly at the screen, twiddling with dialogue that goes absolutely nowhere, and vaguely feeling like you should probably just give up and have the ship explode or something?

Yeah, that's about where I am right now.

Seriously, I couldn't write for weeks. I couldn't. I would start things, write a few sentences, realize it was going nowhere, start something else... and then have exactly the same problem. I managed to finally jump-start one of my older ideas that I'd been trying to finagle into something for a while. (Hint: When trudging through the depths of writer's block, there is nothing in the world like a set of characters whose standard mode of being is pretty much "ANGST ANGST WOE EVERYTHING SUCKS AND EVEN THINGS THAT ARE SORT OF GOOD SUCK IN SOME WAY OR OTHER." I think this is the case because it means that the characters' attitudes mirror the black abyss of despair in the writer's heart, or perhaps because I am secretly a sadist where certain characters are concerned.)

Anyway, I got it going again. Nice happy (ha) BSG fic (now you see the reason for the "ha" back there), the conclusion of what I have previously described as "gleeful deconstruction of my favorite pairing" from this fandom. IE, Helo and Athena. And Boomer. They're so adorably screwed up, you know? Especially when you start thinking about it too much. So the fic was going. Several of the sections I'd mentally outlined flowed nicely and came out quite nice on paper (er, screen). It's got some funny, it's got some (inevitable) angst, it's got some cute bits and perhaps even some sweetness. It's working. And then... the last section. deborah_judge has heard me talking about this idea before, what with the "Oh dear, Helo can't tell the difference between the Sharons when everybody else who's at all involved with a Cylon apparently can - that's gotta be awkward" and the "You're not married to the whole production line" quote and... all of that. Screeeeeeech, crash, destruction.

All of a sudden I realize that if I'm actually trying to write conversation rather than just random drunken quips, I can't write Starbuck. I can't write Tigh, either, except under the same tightly-controlled drunken circumstances. And in those circumstances, they sound annoyingly like each other. Not a good sign. I need someone who will talk to Helo, since Athena's answer to marital crisis, as seen in canon, is pretty much "clam up and get bitter." Somebody's got to talk, here, and if it's not going to be her, it's got to be Starbuck (because, really, having tried it... Tigh makes absolutely no sense. I thought he would be helpful what with the whole long, steady marriage thing - you have to admit, even though Ellen's a nutball, their marriage is, on the whole, probably the most stable that we see in the show. But no, instead he was just a grumpy bastard. Big surprise there. ...So now I'm stuck with Ms. Marital Fidelity? What's That? as my best option for a conversation, and that's... not helping a whole lot, I gotta say.). Then I realize that I can't remember the exact order of events happening surrounding the whole Boomer disaster in "Someone to Watch Over Me," or how things happen after that up to the point of the finale, and... it's just not working. And TwizTV, usually The Source for transcripts in cases like this, only has through the first half of S4. No good. Augh. So instead I stayed up until midnight twiddling with the damned dialogue, listening to the soundtrack, and reading Bear's blog for the episode in hopes it would jar something in terms of exact order of operations (and because I was bored). It didn't. I pretty much just caused myself to oversleep this morning and have the Final Five theme stuck in my head all day.

Rant over. Tonight, I'm taking control of the TV and insisting that we watch "Someone To Watch Over Me" so that I can... I don't know, absorb. Possibly take notes. And try desperately to get this stupid thing written, because I really need to get something done so that I can start feeling okay with the writing again. Once I'm done with this, I'll go back to trying to make the novel work. But at the moment, I think fic is about all that I can handle.


In short: Somebody please tell the characters hanging out in my head to play nicely?

Time to get back to work. Only one and a half days until the new office. ♥

Comments

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

I really want to read this...if you want to bounce around ideas or if you'd like me to look at a draft just let me know.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I want to read it, too... or at least write it. Kind of the same. But while somebody is attempting to have a crisis about his marital infidelity, his BFF is being a total pain in the ass. I do not seem to have your knack for convincing Starbuck to take matters seriously. ...Particularly as regards the whole marital fidelity thing, which, as near as I can tell, mostly just makes her prickly and grumpy in a "you're being really upset about having done by accident something that I did and now I feel like you're JUDGING ME" kind of way. Which would be great if I'd set out to explore Helo and Kara's friendship - less great in that I was trying to explore his relationship with Sharon.

...Of course, Sharon isn't helping matters either. I keep trying to coax her into talking to him about the whole situation, but she really doesn't want to. Which isn't making either Helo's life or mine easy at the moment. *Headdesk*

Thoughts? Advice on corralling Starbuck? Or, failing that, convincing Athena that getting quiet and bitter is perhaps not the best way to deal with problems?

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Particularly as regards the whole marital fidelity thing, which, as near as I can tell, mostly just makes her prickly and grumpy in a "you're being really upset about having done by accident something that I did and now I feel like you're JUDGING ME" kind of way.

Yeah, I think she'd do that in my head as well. So what about not making it about marital fidelity? What about making it about, Helo being upset because he had sex with someone he really didn't *like*, and besides she's his enemy, and besides she was torturing his wife, and he didn't notice because the sex was so good and he mistook her for someone he loved? And, um, Starbuck might relate to pieces of that as well, but possibly in ways that make her more sympathetic towards Helo rather than less?

convincing Athena that getting quiet and bitter is perhaps not the best way to deal with problems?

Ack, poor Athena. But who does she really have to talk to? She's so isolated. When in canon are you setting this? If it's late in season 4 maybe she could talk to another Eight who isn't Boomer?

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

And, um, Starbuck might relate to pieces of that as well, but possibly in ways that make her more sympathetic towards Helo rather than less?

That is exactly what I needed! ♥♥♥ I was so caught up in the issue in my head that it didn't occur to me to just re-frame the problem in a way Kara can deal with without getting all defensive and making things worse. And you're right, framed that way it is something she can identify with and sympathize with. Which is perfect, because they totally know each other well enough that Helo would know how to frame something in a way she'd be able to understand.

Good point about the other Eights, too. It'd be interesting to see how that would work out, anyway - and, conveniently, gives me an opportunity to let Athena have more interaction with the other Cylons, which I've always felt like she avoids. ...Or, failing that, I might bring in Caprica...

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

No specific thoughts or advice, but if you ever want to bounce something off me, let me know.

Well, no, here is a thought. Generally, the only time I find Starbuck not being either Drunken Quipster or Bad-Ass Viper Jock, it's when circumstances lead her to become very vulnerable. Which doesn't happen often, but IDK, maybe an angle you could work?

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Glad it helped!

[oszras.livejournal.com]

I find it hilarious that crack!fic or AU fic in the BSG fandom is when everyone is happy. I mean I love BSG (to death, srsly) but one thing you can say is it was one hell of a depressing show sometimes. Actually most of the time, that's what makes the sweet parts so damn sweet. Of course me being the weirdo that I am I love it like crazy. Even when I'm reading a happy fic for BSG I'm still waiting for that other shoe to drop. lol

It's ironic that you have trouble with Tigh and Starbuck, those two are easy for me to get into their headspace. Laura, Tory and Six on the other hand... Oh man, so difficult! And Lee too now that I think of it, mainly because of that one episode where he had a hooker friend and that woman he loved but left pregnant or something - the episode that I don't talk about because hello wtfery!

Anyway, I have nothing constructive to add, sorry! Just letting you know that I understand when characters don't want to play nicely.

(also omg you listen to the soundtracks when writing too? that's exactly what gets me into the groove of writing, well besides watching the episode)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Actually most of the time, that's what makes the sweet parts so damn sweet.

It's funny, isn't it? Most depressing show ever! Everything's miserable and horrible... and that makes the sweet moments so freaking fantastic. ♥ I love it!

This is my first time writing BSG fic, so I'm still kind of testing out the waters with everybody. So far Athena (and Boomer) are easy, Helo's fairly easy as well... and everybody else leaves me feeling faintly at sea. I think that whenever I get to them I'll be able to write Adama, Roslin, Gaeta, Dee and possibly Gaius fairly easily, as well. The various incarnations of Six are a maybe. Tigh and Starbuck... frustrate me. I want to be able to write them, but so far, I'm having difficulty with both their thought processes and their speech patterns. Practice, I suppose. But so far, mergh.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Generally, the only time I find Starbuck not being either Drunken Quipster or Bad-Ass Viper Jock, it's when circumstances lead her to become very vulnerable.

That's a good point - she's not good at having "normal" conversations when she's not in a position that's somewhat at a disadvantage. Or, more likely, she just doesn't like to have "normal" conversations, I suppose? She's hardly the type to want to sit around and talk philosophy or something. ;)

And I may very well take you up on that at some point!

rambling queen

[oszras.livejournal.com]

Everything's miserable and horrible... and that makes the sweet moments so freaking fantastic. ♥ I love it!

I swear when I started watching BSG I wanted to hug my tv. I've been waiting for a show like BSG since I finished B5. I mean, for me B5 and BSG just hit all my fangirl loves, idek how to explain it but those shows just *work* for me. *fangirls moar*

I don't write fic per say, I just write down little drabbles in my spare time b/c dear god if I don't the ideas might actually eat my brain. But yeah, Helo I think is pretty easy maybe because for me he's kinda the everyman in a sense. He's just *shrugs* Helo, he's very accessible as a character I think. (if that makes any sense) Adama as well, to a degree. I don't know if that's the actors or the writing but they seem easier to get, their speech patterns, body language and such. Roslin on the other hand is just a daunting character for me, maybe it's b/c I fangirl her so much, or she's a sly one, in a way that's awesome but kinda hard for me to write down. Anyway, I can never can write her the way I think she comes across in the show. Six is the same way, probably because there are so damn many Sixes running around, but I never know which one I want to write about. (besides Natlie, oh Nat why did you have to die so soon? whyyyyy? <3) So it's hard for me to get a handle on Six when I'm not even sure which Six is which and even if that really matters in a show like this where in a sense they are all one in the same, except when they're not. Caprica Six (and Boomer) were different from the other Cylons, I think, because they had spent a lot of time with humans. So if I'm writing from a Cylon pov I have to get into that thought process, and look at how the Cylons would look at each other. It's alien and yet it's not alien, IDEK, I spend way to much time thinking about this. I'm not even making sense.

I think Dee and Billy might be easy to get a handle on, okay so that's me just being all fangirly and heartsinmyeyes squeeful about them, soooo cute! Gaeta too might be easy as well since he's kinda a everyman too. Sorta. Plus idealism, I can work with idealism. Gaius, however, I will never feel adequate in writing him, ever. That is due to me not ever knowing what the hell the show was *doing* with him. I mean, villian but not, guy who is screwed up but tries, yadda yadda yadda etc. And yet I can never get a handle on him. Certain scenes...okay yeah. Like when he's talking Boomer into shooting herself in the head, yeah. But other times espeically in the fourth season...yeah no.

Okay I just rambled all over the place and not making much sense, I'm so sorry! I'll stop now.

Re: rambling queen

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Helo I think is pretty easy maybe because for me he's kinda the everyman in a sense. He's just *shrugs* Helo, he's very accessible as a character I think.

I think you're right about that, in a way - he's a very unusual "everyman" if that's what he is, though. He is in the sense that he's normal, hasn't got anything special about him particularly apart from his ethics and his adherence to his own morality (although that alone in BSG is kind of a superpower, it seems). But, honestly, I normally hate the everyman. I don't like Garibaldi all that much, nor Xander on Buffy, and I don't care one way or another about Tyrol... and yeah, okay, probably part of the difference is that, um, Helo's hot. *Coughs* But he's special in the sense that he won't compromise his morals, ever, for anything, and I kind of love that. So, you know, that's a thing.

The Cylon thing is interesting, because we do get the sense that they're different from humans - that they think differently from us, and so on, but I don't think I could ever actually pin it down in the way I could with, say, the Minbari or the Centauri versus Humans in B5. I could definitely tell you what distinguishes the way Caprica, for instance, thinks about things in comparison to, say, Starbuck (or Roslin, or Apollo, or whatever), but I don't think I could pin something down and say "this is how Cylons think." Especially not after the whole thing with the Final Five, which just screwed everything up because we basically had Cylons who were definitely Cylon but who were also very definitely still acting like their old Human selves in a way that Boomer, for instance, had long since given up. It's a very interesting situation from that perspective.

And yeah, Gaius is freaking confusing in the show. But, at the root, he's always working out of complete self interest (at least until the very end). He's just dancing along on the edge, doing whatever it takes to keep from falling off, and trying to better his position as much as possible in whatever way is currently available to him. And I do kind of love that about him.

Re: rambling queen

[oszras.livejournal.com]

I was in the military for a few years so I tended to look at BSG (and B5) from that viewpoint. So to me, Helo was an everyman in the instance that he just did his job. He wasn't special or destined for anything like Starbuck or the Final Five, no prophetic dreams nothing like that. He's just a guy doing his job at the end of the world... who was in love with a Cylon - so I guess that made him special in a way. :D It's funny I started out loving Helo but at the end of the series wanted to smack him. He is moral, and in a show like BSG I do appreciate that, but at the end there I just felt like he was more I AM THE MORAL COMPASS OF THIS SHOW rather than just being Helo. That feeling came from when he told Roslin and Tigh that Cylons were just trying to live with humans on New Caprica. I was like "DUDE TIGH CAME BACK WITHOUT AN EYE! IT WAS NOT A FRAKKING PICNIC OKAY!". It's also hilarious that the characters I started out hating with a passion (Tigh) became near and dear to me. Oh I do love that one-eyed, drunk, poet!

It's funny but was not very attached to Garabaldi or Xander either. Tyrol too, mainly because...heck I don't even *know* why I just didn't care. I had more emotions about Callie than I ever did for Tyrol.

The Cylon pov is very hard for me to get a handle on. Because like you said, we had Cylons who were most definitely CYLONS, and then we had Leoban who was just...uh, crazy? Or something? And Ellen, she seemed a little more stable after she resurrected, but I knew she hadn't changed and she really hadn't changed in some ways and in other ways she had... IDK, Ellen is really tricky for me. I can get the pre-Cylon Ellen but afterwords.... She's really difficult. The final five thing: I mean I get what the show was going for when they did the Final Five - the whole what is really alien when we can't even define human? And so on... however in some cases I wonder if whatever the writers were going for got lost b/c we were all awaiting that WHO IS THE NEXT CYLON? tension. Or whatever. I don't mind them being Cylons, Tigh especially was a nice surprise he seemed to become *more* human after that revelation! But the others...

I had gotten the feeling that sometimes we were supposed to...connect to Gauis or feel sorry for him. My problem is that I really, really hated the guy. I loved it when he had comedic things (mostly in the first season) but truly the character drove me up the wall. He's the one character that I find it really hard to like. The others I can find something good about them or something they did that I liked but him? Pfft, didn't happen.

Re: rambling queen

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

The thing with Helo... yeah, his morality got more than a bit anvilicious after a while. Somehow I kept right on loving him (...possibly the hotness had to do with this...), and just occasionally got frustrated with how the writers were less than subtle with their use of him, poor bastard. Apart from "The Woman King," which I just plain pretend didn't happen because it was an all-around terrible episode.

Tigh was an interesting case for me. I hated him, hated him, hated him, hated him, hated him... sort of felt sorry for him for about five minutes after the whole eye and Ellen thing, hated him again... and then, suddenly, after the whole Final Five thing and the following mutiny and all that, loved him. Total love. I mean, it's still "Tigh, you bastard," and "God damn it, Tigh," and things like that, but I love the drunken sod. Hence the icon, whose title in my keywords is "I admit it." ♥

Gaius: I hate him as a person, but frankly adore him as a character, in that he's amazingly hilarious to watch squirm. I love watching all the million and one way that worm squirms off the hook over and over, and he's such a shit about it. He's one of those rare "love in that I want to strangle" kinds of characters.

Re: rambling queen

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

...Much later, but I realized I forgot to ask before: Where did you find that icon? And is there a full-size version somewhere that I should know about?

Re: rambling queen

[oszras.livejournal.com]

You know at the end there every time Helo came on screen my response was 'shut up, Helo' - I just knew he was going to say something that *I* know was going to piss me off. Even if he was right morally I hated how arrogant and pretentious he was about it. Like with the Cylon virus or torture or whatever I agreed with him but I also wanted to throw my shoe at the screen because of the way he said it and the way he went about it. (okay so not really throw my shoe but he did aggravate the hell out of me)

Hee! I felt the same way about Tigh, in the New Caprica arc I had sympathy for Ellen and his eye (and when he started saying things that sounded like poetry, Michael Hogan really knocked the old Irish sea-man turned pirate poet role out of the park) but I still hated him. I hated the death council thing he was on, I hated him until sometime in late season three I realized I loved the old bastard. And then of course there is the line "...and that's the man I want to be." and boom I was done for, head over heels in love with him. And I had NO CLUE as to how it happened. It just did. Same way with Starbuck, I disliked her...uh greatly until in 4.5 when she's burning her dead body on 'Earth' and I thought...you know what 'Buck? Your life has REALLY sucked. And then just like with Tigh I started really liking her.

Gaius, for me, was difficult to watch because I really loved it when Gaius was around the main cast. This cast really loves each other and they just *shine* when they get to interact other main cast members, not just extras. So Gaius was hard to watch because mostly in 4 he was in that crazy ass cult or he was with the Cylons (he was great with Tricia Helfer don't get me wrong, she's fantastic) but I needed to see him play off the other cast members too. Like in Season 1. When Gaius is with Roslin - oh I just love their dynamic (not in a shippy way) they sparked - her with loathing for him and him well being Gaius, lol. I loved the yin and yang of their (non)relationship. XD and I'll stop since I could go on and on.

I agree he is that 'love to hate' kind of character. But I think I was frustrated with a lack of coherence over what exactly was going on with him in S4. So. Yeah, love to hate him, but hate him a lot when he's with those crazy ass cult people especially. :D

eta: I just wanted to say that I'm not really mad or raging at the show. My comments were made out of love, it's bitching but not from disappointment. I just love discussing the show even if my comments sounded gripey they aren't really. I love how BSG took these characters and made them likable and unlikeable - I love how they changed and how they didn't in four years. IDK, I'm still in love with the show. I think my comments sound harsh and I really didn't mean it that way. Just wanted to say that in case I really came off like I was displease with the show!

Re: rambling queen

[oszras.livejournal.com]

Ah! it's an icon from crazyvictoria, her graphics journal is at cylonish.

She made icons and wallpapers, that was an icon of a wallpaper she did. She's has some great stuff! Also, cylonish is a group journal so there is a lot of stuff from others there that are just as great!

Re: rambling queen

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Oh my god, don't even get me started on Gaius' freaking groupies. I was having flashbacks to Byron and the whole season 5 teep arc on B5 through that whole plotline, every single time they showed up, and it just about drove me over the edge. You said you couldn't look at Helo without wanting to tell him to shut up - that was how I felt about Gaius' gods-damned harem. Every single one of them, I just wanted to smack upside the head. And Ellen. God I hated her for most of the series. She became almost tolerable at times after she was resurrected, but god that woman was annoying sometimes.

Gaius and Roslin - yes! They have such a fantastic hate between them. And him and Six, too. That, I think, was partially just that both James Callis and Tricia Helfer are just so damned talented that I pretty much had instant actor-squee every time they were on-screen together. So much going on! So many layers! So awesome!!!♥

And yeah. Oh, Helo. Bless him, he really was annoying at times. I kind of cover my eyes and plug my ears and say "it was all the writers' faults, they just screwed up with him over and over!" And they did. I mean, really, "The Woman King?" My god. Most horrible episode of the whole freaking series. And I don't think (I really don't think) that it was Tahmoh's fault, because none of the other actors did well in that episode either, and they're all brilliant. It was just an awful, awful episode. And, yes, same thing with the whole plague genocide thing. It was just poorly written, I felt like. Poor guy got the short end of the writing stick. *Pets him* It's a good thing he's pretty.

Starbuck... oh, Starbuck. I knew from day one how that was going to go. She's so charismatic that she's absolutely irresistible at times - at least to me - but at other times, gods, you just want to smack her, she's such a kind of horrible person. But I did love her all the way through, often despite myself. I know people like that IRL, even - people who are just so damned charismatic that as much as you don't like them normally, if they turn the charisma on at you, you just can't be mad at them. At least that's how I see Starbuck. And I am so very vulnerable to that kind of thing.

Durrrrr, and I totally missed your ETA at the bottom. I totally get where you're coming from. I love all the damned shows we talk about - if I didn't love them I wouldn't bitch so much about the things they do wrong, I figure. I'd just quit watching. Since I love them, it's like it's personally upsetting to me when they screw up somehow (like, for instance, with "The Woman King." Or "Black Market," which I also hated...)

Re: rambling queen

[oszras.livejournal.com]

ME TOO! Oh, so *many* Byron flashbacks. so many. In fact when he got that cult going I actually said to my tv 'i swear to god Ron if they start singing - I'M GONE!' I hear you! When they were given weapons, omg I new it was NOT going to end well - TPB aired deleted scenes after the episode was over, or offer them on itunes - and the deleted scenes make some sense of that GIVING WEAPONS TO A BUNCH OF CRAZY ASS CULT MEMBERS but still omg Adama, what the hell! Anyway, oh that cult, so creepy, so so annoying. OH Ellen, dude, I could not *stand* her and yet I came to actually sort of like her. I mean by the end I was such a mess though, I loved them all, LOL!

Yes so many layers! I loved them. Seriously this cast was amazing you know? And I could tell how much they loved to work together when they had scenes with each other. Especially when it was actors that they usually didn't work with b/c of their storylines. I loved it when they got to mix it up and spark off each other. I don't know if you saw any of the behind the scenes stuff, clips and interviews etc., but this cast is the only cast that I will ever believe actually loved each other like a family. Like when the Tyrol actor said that when his wife died, it was during the show, shooting the series I think, and the cast went to the funeral of course but also stayed with him and ate and grieved with him for (i think) a few days. Or when Grace got married during the first season and EJO got up during the reception and said that since he couldn't give her away he wanted to give a toast. Or when Billy's actor left Mary McDonnell cried and called him once a week and they would talk on the phone. (forgive me it's late and I'm brain dead I know their names just...kinda blank right now. *facepalms*) Just... I LOVE this cast. *sigh* And it shows through their acting I think, how great they all were together.

Oh it totally wasn't Tahmoah's fault, dude that was just really bad writing. "The Woman King", "Black Market" and "Dirty Hands" do not exist. For reals. I mean, Adama you just put Callie in a firing squad...AND EVERYONE IS OKAY WITH THAT? There was no fallout or anything...just WOW RON WOW. Okay yeah you could tie that to the mutiny (that happened a *year* later, so I don't) but dude, just...what? Or suddenly Adama has a ex-wife in his head and they talk and talk and then there is all kinds of weird shit and she was abusive and LETS THROW MORE ANGST ONTO THE ADAMA MEN YEAH THAT'LL WORK!!! *facepalm* So yeah there were several times where the show just went all crazy, usually when they were doing filler episodes because BSG always felt right when they were going somewhere with the plot. Not when doctors commit murder and it's because he's racist and then...we never talk about it again? oh okay show, uh, bring back the cylons please!

I called her StarFlake for a long time, my problem was that she felt like a Sue. Now, not in the usual way but that Adama let her get away with anything, and I know end of the world and all that but - I just wanted her to finally get called on her bullshit. So in S4 when he basically called out Tigh and Starbuck that's when I finally started to relent, even called her Starbuck, but I think it was me feeling like the show *in some ways excused her behavior. Now, I really felt for her during that Leoban shit, because really *no one* should have to be around that creeper. *shivers* Esp. the Doll House from Hell. Katee however is fantastic, I just loved watching her act even when Starbuck drove me up the wall. Her facial expressions alone are awesome... I loved seeing her and Gaius together they cracked me up. Oh and her and Helo, I LOVE their friendship. SO AWESOME.

Yes! I didn't want you to think I was all bitchy because I hated it, after the series finale a lot of people hated the show or Ron but - I didn't. I loved it, I couldn't stop loving this show. Where there things I disliked or thought they could do better Oh yes! But this show was just so IDEK I have no words for how much this show rocked my world. I sorely needed this show, I never thought I would find another B5 type show that could ever come close to B5 but seriously BSG did. if that makes any sense!

Re: rambling queen

[oszras.livejournal.com]

but I think it was me feeling like the show *in some ways excused her behavior.

*in some ways - not all the time and I certainly don't think they did it on purpose but. Sometimes I think they wanted to say Our Starbuck is just as awesome as the old one! And went to far. She got to act so crazy in the first few seasons and no one called her out on it. Sure she went to the brig but - It just bugged me, especially when people were getting sent to the brig all the time. I swear the brig was like a Cool Kids Club hell even the President got sent to the brig! XD

So she's not a Sue in the usual way but sometimes I wonder if they didn't let people in the first season call her out more b/c she was Starbuck. And to be clear I would rag on 'Buck if she were a man. Hell I've ragged on Lee just as much, the tool, :P. :D

Re: rambling queen

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Okay, feel free to share as many cast stories as you know, because things like this:

Or when Grace got married during the first season and EJO got up during the reception and said that since he couldn't give her away he wanted to give a toast.

Just make me SO ABSURDLY HAPPY. ♥ Seriously, full of love. I absolutely adore stories like that - just brings out the little bit of me that misses all the crazy-ass camaraderie that happens in theater and kind of makes me wistful for it and all.

"The Woman King", "Black Market" and "Dirty Hands" do not exist. For reals.

Ahahahaha, no. Yeah, just no. Those three, seriously. If they had just not existed, the series would have been better for it. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Now, in fairness, there were some filler episodes that I felt worked - I honestly loved "Unfinished Business," but that might be because I saw the extended cut first. Either way, I felt like that one worked. And there were others. Honestly, everything except the three above-mentioned episodes, I felt, was pretty damned good and consistent and all that. Just... dear god, never again with those three. Never again.

Katee is fantastic. I totally adored her. Her and Adama normally pleased me, and her and Gaius are, as you said, absolutely fantastic. And yes, the show needed more of just her and Helo being awesome BFFs together. I always kind of blamed Lee for that... but Lee is convenient to blame for so many things, IMHO.

Re: rambling queen

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

The thing with Starbuck not being called out on things... bothered me at times, but it also struck me as very realistic. We get pretty damned clear in the show that it's pretty much Adama who will let Starbuck get away with anything because she's the daughter he always wished he'd had, and he's kind of babying her and letting her get away with anything because of that and because she was going to be Zack's wife, Zack's dead, blah blah blah. He just can't see her faults in the beginning at all. He loves her too much. And, bless him, as much as I love Adama, he's a stubborn moron sometimes, particularly when it comes to people. His relationship with Starbuck, his relationship with Lee, hell, even his relationship with Laura, all get messed up by that. A lot of times it takes something giganta-huge for him to own up and admit that he was wrong (as when at the end he has to admit that they need to leave Galactica, and as he does many times when it's necessary to smack Starbuck down or... pretty much interact at all with Lee).

That said, I was kind of glad Starbuck was as crass and loud and annoying and arrogant as she was, because, honestly, I don't see too many female characters on TV like that, and, alas, there are so many male characters like that who everybody's meant to love. It was kind of nice to see that reversed for a change.

...And oh god, Lee. I sometimes love him, but most of the time, god, I just want to smack him. You're right, such a tool.

Re: rambling queen

[oszras.livejournal.com]

IKR?! I just loved that it was just so awesome! And the BtS pictures of the cast or the book that was made for the cast that has all their letters to each other and pictures. Just <3. (also the fact that Tricia and Katee ride Hogs and other motorcycles around for charity and for fun - just being their awesome selves. you should see their outlaw videos where they ride from L.A. to Louisiana for charity - they do vids after each day, both are drunk and silly and OMG <33333 ) Seriously this cast kills me!

I agree. Those three episodes are just... I don't even know, man. I have no idea what the writers were thinking, seriously. But, gurl, I LOVE 'unfinished business'! Okay so it has boxing and flashbacks and New Caprica (which I was fine with the show not lingering on NC but all the same I love reading fic about that time, so much stuff to be explored there.) and Adama/Roslin, and getting high and drunk. Everyone being happy, angsty, hilarious and it was just plain awesome. Lurve it. And yeah, really with the exception of those three episodes I can't remember a really bad filler episode. This show was so good with character stuff that the filler eps didn't really feel like filler. But boy, when they had bad eps they had bad eps.

Katee played really well off EJO or Mary. I mean she was great with every other cast member but something about her interacting with Adama or Roslin always warmed my heart. In fact it was really a shame Starbuck and Roslin didn't have more scenes together, they also had a great dynamic. Oh who am I kidding all the main characters had amazing chemistry with each other. I always want more with this show.

Lee is to blame for a lot of things. I loved Lee's relationship with Roslin in the first two seasons. Part Space!Mommy, part mentor, part friend - and then they hardly had scenes together which made me sad. But then Lee became even bigger tool and whateves. :D

You know I wondered about something, were Starbuck and Apollo supposed to represent Adama and Roslin in some way? Like the way 'Buck left Lee at the end mirrored the way Roslin left Adama? That scene when Adama leaves the fleet to find Roslin at the end of S4.0, Lee and Starbuck are standing in Adama's office Lee in his suit, Kara in her uniform... Or in 'unfinished business' when Adama and Roslin get all cute together and Lee and Starbuck hook up...

IDK, I always saw Lee and Starbuck as siblings - that whole cheating thing drove me insane - but they did have chemistry although it was more of a 'wouldn't work but they sure would love to try' kind of thing, at least to me.

I have to say I thought Anders and Starbuck were nice, I mean at the end I couldn't help but love them together. (the dog tag scene in 'daybreak' kills me)

Re: rambling queen

[oszras.livejournal.com]

We get pretty damned clear in the show that it's pretty much Adama who will let Starbuck get away with anything

Yes, oh Adama drove me up the wall with that crap. I guess since he was the head of the fleet - no one wanted to go against him so they just let it go. But still I wanted someone to just be like 'dude, STOP IT, OKAY? JUST.STOP.' I did love the ep where Kara is downed on that planet and Lee & Adama don't want to give her up and Roslin finally is like 'seriously? what the fuck is this shit?! WE HAVE AN ENTIRE FLEET TO PROTECT!' well no in those words. But still, at least she brought it up. Even though Adama was like 'whatever'.

Adama Drama Llama - it's my pet name for him. I love him too, to pieces, but omg that 'no one's gonna be going anywhere' stuff while heartbreaking and romantic - is also head desking infuriating at times. And seriously that man was so sure he was right! Lord. These characters, all of them, they just make me want to shake them and then pet and hug them. I go from "<3" to "OH MY GOD YOU IDIOT!" in 0 to 3 seconds. XD

I personally loved, in the abstract, that she could cheat and the show didn't make her out to be a whore and Lee a man who didn't know how to say no to his lady love. They were both dickheads. Period. And the show let them be that! It was great. Well I hate cheating but still the treatment of both characters as being in the wrong for it - that was refreshing!

Lee is a tool. I love him and yet half the time I'm wishing I could throw my shoe at his head. Tch, such a tool.