rivendellrose: (Hand and Arm)
[personal profile] rivendellrose
Spoilers under the cut, the usual ranting and raving and random notes. And then more spoilers than usual because I think The Boy's Reddit habit ran him across something that's a major spoiler, and then he was like "Haha, listen to this crazy theory that a bunch of people seem to believe," and I was like "...Oh fuck I'm pretty sure that's actually true," and then my brain started putting together other disconnected pieces and guys, my brain just isn't a pretty place right now.

I will separate the Big Spoilers from the Just This Episode spoilers. But, like... WARNING.



- Harcourt Fenton Mudd is a giant fucking asshole.

- That's not a spoiler for anything, really, I just felt like I needed to get it out at the beginning.

- Andorian tonsillectomy. Boy, I really thought they might've stopped doing that "refer to the Andorians constantly for no reason" thing, after they missed it last week, but nope, they were just laying off a bit after two in one episode a while ago, we're back now to the pattern of referring weekly to the Andorians. AND NEVER SHOWING THEM.

- On second thought, I almost don't mind that they never show the Andorians because at this point I hate the Klingon makeup so much that I sort of dread to see what their makeup designer would do to my beloved blue antennae'd people.

- Lorca really does appear to have something wrong with his eyes, and when his eye treatment thing got left behind on the shuttle boy was that ever a giant Chekov's gun that the eye thing was going to come back again later. And it did. So that was nice.

- Jonathan Archer is held to be the 2nd (or was it 3rd?) best captain in Starfleet history at this point. Other notables were Matthew Decker, Christopher Pike, and, of course, Philippa Georgiou. In reality Archer is a teensy bit of a moron sometimes, but I love him so much despite that fact that I'm still thrilled by this.

- Holy shit, you guys, Tilly said 'fucking.' On Star Trek! I was surprisingly very excited by this!

- Holy fucking shit (thanks, Tilly!), Stamets injected himself with tardigrade DNA and hooked himself up to the spore drive. Of course he did. Because he always wanted to talk to his mushrooms. But STILL.

- Saru apologized to Burnham! D'awwwwwww.

- Burnham gave him the fucking telescope, oh my god, BREAK MY SHIPPER HEART, why don't you, Burnham? Don't give that away, Philippa gave that to you!!!

- Tilly and Burnham set Kitty free! ♥♥♥

- HOLY FUCKING SHIT, we finally got confirmation that the doctor is Stamets' boyfriend! There they were, brushing their teeth together!

- HOLY FUCKING SHIT FUCKING HELL FUCK FUCK FUCK STAMETS' REFLECTION NO NO NO I REALLY DON'T LIKE WHEN MIRRORS MISBEHAVE.

- Someone suggested this is a nod ahead to a Mirror Universe episode. I feel it is too early for a Mirror Universe episode, because our ensemble is not yet established enough for that. However, I would like to point out that there is precisely zero reason to believe that Captain Georgiou is dead in the Mirror Universe, and therefore I am all for a Mirror Universe episode as soon as possible please.

- I would also like to point out that while I generally am against the fact that all women in the Mirror Universe are, by canonical convention, lesbian dominatrixes, I am totally, 110% behind the proposition that Mirror Georgiou is a lesbian dominatrix. 10/10 would move to the Mirror Universe immediately and stay there forever if this is the case.

- Okay, so here's where I'm breaking for the Big Giant Thing I'm Pretty Sure Is A Spoiler. This is all mostly speculation, but there's enough to it that I'm feeling pretty damned confident and there are actually some facts behind it and just, like, if you want to go into the next, oh, I'm gonna assume rest of the season without what I think is a pretty solid idea of where at least one plotline is going, don't read anything else after this, okay? It has the sinking feeling of truth, to me.

* * *

SPOILERS / SCARY IDEAS

* * *

SERIOUSLY I WISH I HADN'T HEARD THIS AND THEN THOUGHT IT THROUGH

* * *

SPOILERS / SCARY IDEAS

* * *

Okay, so the theory that The Boy read was basically that Lt. Ash Tyler is actually Voq. The Boy thought this was ridiculous because how is an albino Klingon going to suddenly show up again as a Human of apparently Middle Eastern descent?

Well, if we were to assume that the writers are actually paying attention to previous canon and interested in actually using it in ways other than just referring to random items from it (like the Daystrom Institute, or the Andorians), there's two ways they could do that. The first and simplest way is to just say "cosmetic surgery!" We've seen Orions masquerade as Andorians (TOS, "Journey to Babel"), Deanna Troi as a Romulan (TNG, can't remember episode name), Riker changed into a number of alien species, and at least two, possibly three, Cardassians masquerade as Bajorans (Dukat in DS9 and Seska in VOY, also presumably Ileana Ghemor although we never saw the real her, just Kira cosmetically altered to look like Ileana), along with, of course, Arne Darvin in "The Trouble With Tribbles," a Human who turned out to be a Klingon in disguise. So it's 100% possible and even likely at this time in canon.

The other option, which is a bit more squidgy but also kind of interesting, is the mutagenic virus established in ENT as the reason that TOS Klingons look so Human. I... expect they would not go this way, but it would sure be interesting if they did, because the merest nod in that direction (using the disease intentionally to alter Voq's appearance, and therefore accepting its canonical existence) would raise interesting questions about whether there actually is a way that we got (visually, at least) from these Klingons to the Klingons of the later series (TNG, DS9, etc.), via breeding between these Klingons and the human-looking Klingons affected by the mutagenic virus.

But I digress. My point is, as I told The Boy, it's entirely possible.

And then I thought, "Oh, shit. It's not only possible. It's likely. ...Highly likely."

Point 1: It's highly suspicious that Tyler was "cycled back in" just in time to meet up with Lorca.
Point 2: Lorca says "no one survives seven months of Klingon torture."
Point 3: Tyler's response to this (that the captain of the ship took a liking to him, implying she's been raping him) seems to answer this question until you realize that it actually raises another, very uncomfortable point, which is that the only person we've seen L'Rell show sexual interest in up to this point is Voq.
(Point 3.5: Also, as [personal profile] saturnofthemoon pointed out, even if Tyler really had been a prisoner the entire seven months, we know for a fact he wasn't under L'Rell's custody that whole time, because she was hanging out with Voq for an undetermined amount of time up to the end of the last episode. She could perhaps have used the prison ship to transport Voq to her house matriarchs (see below), but unless she's been very busy it seems unlikely that she was running a prison ship all the time between The Battle of the Binary Stars and then, in addition to being Voq's loyal second trapped on the sacrophagus ship.)
Point 4: The last time we saw L'Rell and Voq, L'Rell said she would take Voq to her house (known as something and Deceivers) and that the matriarchs there would have a way for him to win despite his losses, but that he would have to make sacrifices and give up everything.
Point 5: Shazad Latif has been listed in the opening credits for every episode of this series. Lt. Ash Tyler just appeared for the first time in this episode.
Point 6: L'Rell is odd (particularly in her taste in men), but not delusional. She is, in fact, very smart. When Lorca leaves Tyler behind for a bit as they escape and L'Rell catches up to him, she says something like "Do you think you can just leave after all we've been through together?" This can be read three ways: Way #1 is that L'Rell is crazy and thinks her Human captive actually loves her. I dismiss this out of hand, because L'Rell is not crazy. (Voq is crazy. But that's beside the point.) #2 is that she's taunting him. #3 is that it's a hint to the audience. Now, if it's a hint, it's kind of a shitty one, because I can't come up with a reason for all of this that wouldn't involve L'Rell helping Voq to set up his departure, so she knows damned well he's leaving before this, and is helping him to do so. But the fact that it's a little clumsy doesn't seem to be much of a sticking point, at this point.
Point 7: The Klingon makeup is so completely opaque and immobile that they could actually have given J.G. Hertzler and Jeffrey Combs cameos as Klingons and I wouldn't have known so long as they were uncredited and the actors didn't say anything on social media. Hell, fucking Daniel Craig could've been buried under the Voq makeup all this time and I wouldn't have noticed, even though I pride myself on recognizing actors through makeup.
Point 8: As The Boy pointed out, this little turnabout might well be the reason (or at least part of the reason) they decided to make the Klingon makeup so fucking impenetrable in the first place.
Point 9: Javid Iqbal, the guy who is listed on IMDB as playing Voq, has no other credits to his name. None. The most logical conclusion from this is that Javid Iqbal is a pseudonym for another actor. The most obvious choice for that would be the person who's been inexplicably listed in the opening credits since the beginning but who's listed character just showed up for the first time.

Most likely if this is true we are looking at a sleeper agent scenario - Voq really did give up everything in order to make this happen and has no idea that he is not, in point of fact, Lt. Ash Tyler. Lt. Ash Tyler totally thinks he spent seven months on a Klingon prison ship being intermittently tortured and raped by L'Rell. Lt. Ash Tyler totally thinks he's a good guy and a Human and that he's super loyal to Lorca and all that stuff. Lt. Ash Tyler does not remember being Voq. Which is gonna be super awkward at some point in the not-so-distant future, I'm sure.

What makes it even more super awkward is that Sonequa Martin-Green tweeted something vague about a potential love interest in the future for Burnham, which means there is one. To my great sorrow, this is almost certainly not a sign they're bringing Georgiou back from the dead, but I was, until tonight, at a loss to think who they would pair her with. Stamets, we knew, was gay. I had guessed that the doctor was his boyfriend, and this episode confirmed that. Landry is out due to death, as is most likely Tilly due to "we already have one ground-breaking gay character, why would we have another on the same show?" Lorca seems highly unlikely, as does Saru. Which left me scratching my head. Until tonight, when we met Lt. Ash Tyler, arguably the only person in Starfleet as traumatized by the war as Michael Burnham. Lt. Ash Tyler, who happens to be very handsome and brave and approximately the same age as Michael Burnham. Lt. Ash Tyler who, until I thought of all this, I really liked and felt instantly protective of.

Lt. Ash Tyler who is almost certainly actually Voq, who [personal profile] gaslightgallows and I privately call Dumbfoq the Unbelievable.

Who ate Captain Philippa Georgiou's face.

Call me crazy, but I am 100% sure at this point that this is going to happen. I will be watching, dreading, for further arrows pointing in this direction. While feeling faintly nauseated. Not just because of the face thing, but because if The Boy didn't habitually look into things on Reddit, all of this would totally have worked on me, and I'm not sure what upsets me more - that I'm that easy, or that I'm going to be watching for it all coming, now.

Edited to add: Oh, fuck me, the Tribble on Lorca's desk was a hint, wasn't it? Arne Darvin in "The Trouble with Tribbles," a Klingon masquerading as Human.

Remember the other main time cosmetic surgery came up in TOS? It was an Orion posing as an Andorian. All the references to the Andorians have probably been hints, too. FFS.

Date: 2017-10-16 06:49 am (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
- Someone suggested this is a nod ahead to a Mirror Universe episode. I feel it is too early for a Mirror Universe episode, because our ensemble is not yet established enough for that. However, I would like to point out that there is precisely zero reason to believe that Captain Georgiou is dead in the Mirror Universe, and therefore I am all for a Mirror Universe episode as soon as possible please.

Maybe all the episodes thus far have been Mirror Universe episodes.

Date: 2017-10-16 04:59 pm (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
I'm still banking on this being a third continuity, but there's no reason a third continuity can't have its own mirrorverse.

Date: 2017-10-16 05:09 pm (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
YES.

Plus, I mean, the normal ways that timelines diverge and fracture in sci-fi.

But hopefully, none of them have a borg apocalypse yet :(

Here via conuly's journal

Date: 2017-10-16 10:07 am (UTC)
saturnofthemoon: (Delenn and Lennier)
From: [personal profile] saturnofthemoon
Your theory about Voq/Tyler makes perfect sense. I was scratching my head, trying to figure out how L'Rell could have been on that ship for seven months and trapped in the binary star with Voq.

Watching Voq stare at the Shenzhou's crew registry last episode seemed to hint his storyline would collide with Burnham's at some point...but wow. I did read somewhere that Burnham would form a "special connection" with a man who was a POW with Lorca and Harry Mudd. Silly me thought he would be from Lorca's past.

Re: Here via conuly's journal

Date: 2017-10-24 06:10 pm (UTC)
saturnofthemoon: (Delenn)
From: [personal profile] saturnofthemoon
Thank you. I was a Delenn/Lennier shipper back when there were only about two fics of the pairing, (the original B5 fandom was so boring.) Also, I hope you don't mind that I've followed you. I really like your Discovery reviews. :)

Date: 2017-10-17 08:24 am (UTC)
gatheringrivers: (Default)
From: [personal profile] gatheringrivers
I *thought* that guy was wayyyyy TOO convenient for the escape....

Date: 2017-10-18 12:18 am (UTC)
gaslightgallows: (Blue skin)
From: [personal profile] gaslightgallows
On the one hand, this terrifying theory is brilliant, and normally I'd be entirely behind it.

On the other hand, I have had it up to HERE with "hero-person falls in love with double agent" plots, in basically all walks of media.

On the other other hand, VOQ ATE GEORGIOU'S FACE!!!!!!!!!11!1!

And just... fucking hell, stop Andorian-baiting us, show. :( At least we know that if Culber had to perform an Andorian tonsillectomy, that means that 1) Andorians HAVE tonsils, and 2) there's at least one Andorian on Discovery! (...Garen? ♥)
Edited Date: 2017-10-18 12:19 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-10-18 12:54 am (UTC)
gaslightgallows: (Michael Burnham)
From: [personal profile] gaslightgallows
Yeah, I am super damned annoyed that the adorable Middle Eastern guy might now be a brain-washed Dumbvoq the Unbelievable, because I went from "Protect the puppy at all costs!" to "AIRLOCK THE FUCKER!!!" in a matter of seconds.

"...Oh no, Garen is having a tonsillectomy!♥♥♥" Quick, Burnham, bring your boyfriend popsicles and ice cream!

Even after 30+ years of experience with Humans, I think Garen still finds the idea of iced foods a bit weird. But his throat hurts, so he'll take 'em ♥
Edited Date: 2017-10-18 12:55 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-10-24 09:37 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Yeah, I am super damned annoyed that the adorable Middle Eastern guy might now be a brain-washed Dumbvoq the Unbelievable, because I went from "Protect the puppy at all costs!" to "AIRLOCK THE FUCKER!!!" in a matter of seconds.

That would be my reaction.It makes a horrible kind of sense, but I hate it as a casting and writing choice.

Date: 2017-10-23 07:57 pm (UTC)
monanotlisa: symbol, image, ttrpg, party, pun about rolling dice and getting rolling (Default)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
HOMG YES

Date: 2017-10-23 08:54 pm (UTC)
monanotlisa: symbol, image, ttrpg, party, pun about rolling dice and getting rolling (Default)
From: [personal profile] monanotlisa
I did make some: over in my DW. Feel free to snag.

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