a lovely sentiment
Aug. 31st, 2006 09:15 pmEvery now and then, in random wanderings through fandoms, one comes upon a very special kind of picture. A kind of picture that makes one think... what the fuck were these people drinking? And where can I get some?
B5 fans... it's probably old news of the most tired sort, but you should totally look at it anyway.

Hell, everybody else should look, too, because randomness is funny even if you haven't got a clue who the people are.
Alas for the quality. If anyone has a link to a better version of that pic, I'll love them forever. And my affections are just mercenary enough today that I might just mean that. :>
B5 fans... it's probably old news of the most tired sort, but you should totally look at it anyway.
Hell, everybody else should look, too, because randomness is funny even if you haven't got a clue who the people are.
Alas for the quality. If anyone has a link to a better version of that pic, I'll love them forever. And my affections are just mercenary enough today that I might just mean that. :>
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Date: 2006-09-01 07:51 pm (UTC)o_O Okay, I've already been warned that I'm going to cry at the end, but now I'm really steeling myself for the big finish. Oh dear. This is going to be... messy, I suspect.
They are!
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Date: 2006-09-01 08:20 pm (UTC)One hint though: Delenn is perhaps the strongest and bravest person on the show. And the most loving. You'll know what I mean when you watch it and it doesn't spoil anything I promise.
Actually, JMS made Sleeping in Light as the season ender for season four because they thought the series was going off the air. But when it wasn't they made DoS or whatever the hell it's called as the last epi for S4. So truthfully you can watch Sil without watching S5 but I don't recommend it. Watch all of it because it really does reasonate with all of the sadness and stuff if you've watched it all. Especially after the latter half of season 5.
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Date: 2006-09-01 08:30 pm (UTC)I've always thought Delenn was the bravest - maybe that's why I like her so much. She's the most unexpected, the most delicate in appearance, the one who totally doesn't show it until it's absolutely necessary. Beautiful character.
*Nods* I remember reading about that... and I'm relieved, since it means Susan will be in the last episode. I think I'll miss her like crazy after a whole season without. :P
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Date: 2006-09-01 09:02 pm (UTC)YOU HAVE NO IDEA.
My impression of the first part of S5?
"I'll be in the car."
She is the bravest to me. Dude she started the E/M war but finished it as well. When I first saw her she was so mysterious and wise and then you find out the price of her wisdom. And just wow yo. I love the fact that she's so flawed, just the fact of her past and how far she's come in the series...well it was just great for me. I could ramble on about her forever. :D
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Date: 2006-09-01 09:26 pm (UTC)*Nods* There's an impression in the beginning... some of my friends who I've introduced to the show don't like her, because she seems just so squeaky clean and religious and overly perfect. And I'm practically rubbing my hands and cackling waiting for them to see what's underneath all of that. Which is not at all to say she's a bad person or something - she's a person. She's made some really remarkably bad decisions, she's intensely aware of them, and she does her best to fix them. I love that.
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Date: 2006-09-01 09:47 pm (UTC)Oh god yeah, I couldn't wait for my Dad to finally see that about Delenn. His first impression of her was that she was the heroine of the hour, you know the pretty little damsel in distress waiting for the big strong hero. Yeah, after Severed Dreams and her "Be Somewhere Else" speech he didn't think that anymore. After "Atonement" he looked at me and said and I quote "She's a maneating butterfly" and went on to say that Sheridan was a lucky bastard who had no idea what he had. :D I felt the same way.
I loved the fact that she started the war...and that she knows she will never be able to make up for it but she damn well tries. To me she brought herself back from the brink of the Abyss. Anyone able to that and still be a compassionate but flawed person...well again I'm in love.
I also love Ivanova's strength, yeah she's emotionally vulnerable but she so strong and just...I love all her scenes with Zathras and Draal. Her Voice of Resistance, I love how she really didn't like the idea in the first place but after a while she starts calling it VoR and she really got involved. It was great.
He also loved G'Kar. He called him "Preacher Man". He's a preacher so he loved that whole facet of G'Kar from bloodthirsty warrior to a priest in his heart.
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Date: 2006-09-01 10:20 pm (UTC)Oh yes. Pretty much every word that comes out of that woman's mouth just cements my love for her. ♥
"A maneating butterfly." Wow. That's the most perfect description of her that I've ever heard. And yes, Sheridan has no idea... on so many levels that sometimes I want to hug him, and others to slap him about the head and shake him. I think that's why I prefer Lennier, in a way - Lennier actually knows Delenn, whereas Sheridan knows only the surface that she's willing to show him. They're both stupid-in-love, but Lennier is at least in love with the whole person. Or possibly I just like him better, I don't know.
Oh yes. There's so much potential there for her to have fallen, to give in to her rage and then, later, to give up and refuse to fight against what it created or make the sacrifices that were required of her. Or, for that matter, to make her a complete martyr to them - she manages to do all of it and still remain herself, remain confident and determined to do things her way.
That whole thing with the VoR was beautiful. That's all I can really say about it. Just beautiful.
G'Kar is amazing. Again, such a passionate, flawed, wonderful person, and really one of the best acting jobs out of the whole cast. I actually had only seen the pilot before Andreas Katsulas passed away, and my second-ever episode, "Parliament of Dreams," was both a tribute by my friend and I to his memory, and the first episode where I really fell in love with the show. So in a way I think of G'Kar and Katsulas as the other half (Susan being the first) of why I watched.
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Date: 2006-09-01 11:00 pm (UTC)I want to be Ivanova and Delenn when I grow up, says the twenty-three yr. old. :D
"A maneating butterfly" - I think I'll put that on a icon. :D
Here's the thing for me about Lennier and Sheridan. To me while Lennier is good and loyal, and does know Delenn in the Minbari fashion...I think my main problem with him is that he reveres Delenn, to him she's more than a person. While Sheridan sees her in more of a Human light, to him she's wise and strong but she's not infallible. He's ready to argue and...to me he treats her as an equal. He sees her as just a person that makes mistakes but still loves her for them. Or maybe because of them.
The way Lennier loves her isn't wrong but it's sort of a child-like or teenage love it's still as strong but not on a adult level. I don't think I'm making sense, Lennier isn't a child but he holds her up on this pedstal and he does know her just not the sexual, fallible way. He doesn't see how even when she makes mistakes they could be out of anything more than pious reasons or reasons that serve the entire universe. (Did that make any sense, at all?)
I'm not saying your wrong or anything I can totally dig your reasons, maybe I just don't like Lennier. :D
Delenn, well what can I say you said exactly what I was feeling on that subject. :D
Andreas Katsulas- when I found out he passed...I was heartbroken. To me G'Kar will never be gone. It sounds silly but he's in my heart. I understood him, even way back in Season one when he fought with Londo, spoke with such eloquence. And Andy K's voice...
Well I can't say anything that would him or the character justice so I think I'm going to be silent on that subject. Let the silence speak for itself.
Way melodramatic but it's just too soon after his passing for me, at least.
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Date: 2006-09-01 11:40 pm (UTC)That'd be a lovely icon!
Hell yes. Although I'm torn between wanting to be them and just plain... Anyway. Alas. Fictional crushes - it's a sad day when I have to admit that I can really think of no better ideal than a woman with severe emotional issues and a bad temper, but it's sooo true in this case.
I can totally see where you're coming from on that, I'm just... not sure. It's intensely dependent on one's interpretation of the character. To some extent you're right, Lennier does revere Delenn, and that's not terribly healthy in an adult relationship. On the other hand, Lennier is a very young adult, at least in worldliness if not in actual age - he spent his whole life up until he met Delenn in the temple, and he's clearly portrayed early on as being in a sort of late adolescence/early adulthood phase, the same as Vir. How that works chronologically I can't even begin to explain, given that his stated age has to be around 120, and since I think the last ep of S4 stated that the Minbari lifespan typically went to about 250, he'd be the equivalent of 40-something.... which was either a horrible math mistake on JMS' part or a sly joke about poor Bill Mumy's actual age. I have no idea.
...Can you tell I've been working this out for a while? Random details bother me. Anyway.
My point is that I think it's a fairly honest mistake for Lennier to make, particularly given his culture - from what we've seen of Minbari, of Delenn's relationship with Dukhat, for example - I'm not convinced this isn't normal for them. More than that, I would offer that he learns and grows a lot emotionally over the four years I've seen, and learns to interact with Delenn on an adult level as someone who supports her in everything she does, but is entirely aware when she makes mistakes. He doesn't let her get away with the kind of trickery and aversion that she pulls with Sheridan, and he tells her things she doesn't want to hear (in the Dreaming). It's still an intensely flawed and unequal love, and I hardly think that it would be a good idea for it to actually happen at the point the characters are at (deargodno), but I find it fascinating. Um. Obviously, since I just talked your metaphorical ear off about it. o_O Sorry 'bout that.
I know what you mean, at least as much as it's possible for someone who just barely had a chance to get to know the character before he died. From what I've read and seen, he seemed like a truly amazing gentleman, and his work as G'Kar was nothing short of fabulous. The character truly shone.
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Date: 2006-09-02 12:30 am (UTC)Fictional crushes, I have two. One is Scully from the X-Files and Delenn. And I'm going to be honest here: I think Delenn's headcrest is the sexist thing and I have the most irrational urge to lick it. Yeah, TMI overboard but I can't help it I love The Bone. ;) It's a sickness.
I also think you've got valid points, either way both men loved her dearly and hey, that's not the worse thing to have in the universe is it? :D
Hopefully once you watch S5 you'll come back and chat me up some more because I would seriously love to read your thoughts on Lennier in S5. Actually all of S5. For me Sheridan was better, perhaps at balancing Delenn out. But your right she did do a lot of trickery with Sheridan, not the greatest way to have a relationship. But he had a lot of secrets himself. Again, I'm just not to fond of Lennier so that might be what's coating over my...uneasyness at their (Delenn/Lennier) relationship.
It just seems to me that while Lennier recongized her mistakes he didn't see her as a...errrgh! I just don't have the words to explain it better so I'm agreeing that we are both right. :D
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Date: 2006-09-02 12:53 am (UTC)I'm never going to look at that headcrest in the same way. I blame you if something like that ever turns up in a fic I write. :P (Notice how I'm not arguing with the sexiness of it, though. I'd never exactly thought of it before, but... Eee.) And in the realm of crazy fictional girl-crushes, I have Ivanova, Delenn and Zoe (from Firefly *points to icon*). The crush on Delenn is a bit more... strange, I can never quite figure out all the feelings tied up in that. But it's definitely there. And Scully... oh, Scully. Yeah, I'd probably have to add her to the list as well.
All this (not to mention a girlfriend...) and it took me twenty-three years to come to grips with being bi. Denial is a very weird thing. :P
I'm going to gnash my teeth and wail, now, because I know some of what happens with Lennier in S5. And they hurt me. Ohgod they make me want to tear my hair out by the roots. But I don't know the details or the circumstances, so I have to just keep my mouth shut for another few weeks, and then pray that I can get my hot little hands on the DVDs as quickly as possible once my roommate is back. But don't worry - you'll get me pouncing on you to discuss it as soon as I've seen. XD
I think what you might be going for is that Lennier idealized (and possibly idolized) Delenn - is that it? Not allowing her to really... be a full person, because he was so intent on seeing her as the be-all and end-all of his world. And you're probably exactly right. I can't even express what it is that I love about the poor little guy, something about him just... caught my attention and wouldn't let go, so I'm biased toward him. Weird, but there you go.
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Date: 2006-09-02 01:28 am (UTC)Okay, The HeadCrest:
The minute I saw that headcrest in 'Revalations' I was in love, mix in the hair and well I started down the path to headcrest fixation. To me her crest is really sensitve covered with nerves so it's like a big clit on top of her head. Oh, wow the imagery. Anyway, I have all kinds of dirty thoughts involving that headcrest. And I dearly hope it shows up in one of your fics, yummy. I take full responsiblity for any headcrest porn you write. :D
And now I've got you fixated on the headcrest, see, this is why I love B5- women can love women with bones on their heads, its a perfect universe.
Scully. Who can't love Scully, I love firey women, Delenn, Ivanova, Leia Organa...
Oh look I think a pattern might be emerging.
I don't know if I'm bi, gay or striaght but I do know this I *really* love firey women. I usually pick out these types of women in tv, movies, books and just go to my, ehem, happy place. So yeah I'm might be bi. I once had a bi man tell me I gave off bi vibes don't know if that means anything but it was the first time that was ever said to me so maybe he's right. :D
And you stated perfectly how I feel about Lennier I do think he does idealize/idolize Delenn.
Hey man I don't begruge your woobies, I've got plenty of my own. :D
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Date: 2006-09-02 01:41 am (UTC)It's definitely gorgeous. I think the reason I never thought of it that way (and I'm not sure where this came from) was that I'd always assumed it functioned as a kind of armor for the skull and, thus, wouldn't have much of anything in the way of nerve endings. Of course now that you've put that in my head.... eagh. All kinds of thoughts.
Ohhh yes. Me too. If you get the chance, you should check out Firefly if only to see Zoe. Yikes. Fiery doesn't even begin to describe.... :D
Someone I know writes a bit of Susan/Delenn, and right now I am trying sooooo very hard not to jump over to a text document and start playing with that. It's hard for me to imagine a hotter couple than that, really. In fact I might have to do that tonight, after I get back from dancing.
Good for you not getting caught up in the whole definitions of sexuality thing. I had major issues with it for the longest time, because obviously since I liked guys I couldn't possibly really like girls. Or something. I don't even know what the hell my issue was, but thank god all of that is mostly dealt with. :P
Woobie is exactly the word for it. Inexplicable woobies - you just have to love them. Literally. XD
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Date: 2006-09-02 02:23 am (UTC)Teh HeadCrest:
Yeah, at first I thought that too but then I thought why the hell not? I mean they are aliens and I do love to play around with stuff in the universe. Also her transformation really made me start thinking about it. Since she did take on a more Human apperance wouldn't other things change as well? Her headcrest is a lot darker than other Minbari's and I don't know if you've noticed but sometimes when she hugs Sheridan she will...rub or nuzzle his face with it. I don't know if Mira did it on purpose or if it was a costume thing or what but it happends when she turns her head into his very subtly. Also I write out porn (shamefully hangs head) just for myself because God I do not want my stuff out on the net. And it makes for a really great um stimulator for Delenn. And also I read some really great fics by Leyenn on Jumpy that have her headcrest as really, really sensitive. So yeah, headcrest fever. :D I also think other Minbari have nerves in their crests as well but that't neither here or there.
I have no idea what I am but I do know I like what I like and as long as it doesn't involve children or animals or rape, I'm down with it. Except for tenticle porn...eguh, erm NO. :D
I'm glad it's all straightend out for you. (snerk no pun intended)
Dude I love my woobies, woobies light up my world. :D
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Date: 2006-09-02 07:10 pm (UTC)You know, I have noticed that nuzzling thing. It's so cute! And it definitely did make me wonder, so maybe.... And there's actually a bit of skin growing over the crest at the temple, ever since her transformation... you can bet that that, at the very least, would be extremely sensitive. Embarassingly, though, I find Delenn most attractive when she was fully Minbari. I just loved that look on her - I was actually kind of sad when she came out of the coccoon, because I missed the pretty full headcrest and the beautiful blue markings at the crown of her head. *Is a total freak, apparently.*
Leyenn, hmm? Okay, I'll have to look her up - I need more fic. This whole avoiding-spoilers thing really limits the fic I can read without wanting to spork my eyeballs out, unfortunately.
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Date: 2006-09-02 10:19 pm (UTC)I love that I've converted you to dirty headcrest thoughts. :D I'm glad you noticed it! At first I wondered if it was my twisted imagination showing through again. Yeah the temple skin would be sensitive but I kinda figured the whole crest would have nerves running through it (like all Minbari would and I don't know where I got the idea it just came to me one day)so everything is sensitive. I figure since it sits right on top of their skull wouldn't it have nerves running through it? I mean when someone brushes their fingers through Human hair we feel it and my scalp is really sensitive as well so why wouldn't their's be? Just a theory anyway. And I love the nuzzling thing, just love it. :D
Now I found Fully Minbari!Delenn to be sexy as hell. Her crest was just fucktastic.
And I think the blue blaze is really sensitive too, and the blue blaze is on her back with the spinal column and her pubic area running up almost to her stomach I beleive. I'm not sure though, but I think that was what JMS said. She didn't lose the blue blazes but her hair covers the one on her head and the others have faded but are still there. I think.
I love the hair with the crest though too. Just think about what you could do with...you know I'm gonna stop there. :D
Leyenn:
I don't think she has any spoilery fics, and her Sheridan is better it's still the same character as JMS's but it...rationalizes him better than we do.:D There is one AU that starts with 'A Race Through Dark Places' episode where Sheridan and Delenn have their first date, it's really good if you don't mind PWP it's called 'Racing Through the Dark'. She has several Susan/Talia fics and Susan/Delenn fics. Good stuff, if you like that kind of content. Largely PWP, is all I read 'cause I'm really dirty minded. And usually because I can't find any really well written plot stories or arc stories. Though, Castor is good she's on Jumpy as well but she's got a couple of spoilery fics so I wouldn't check her out until you've seen S5. And so is John Hightower, I don't really agree with the whole celebate Minbari thing but he only writes with canon in mind so it's explained and he really gets into the Minbari riturals, culture and lifestyle very interesting what he does with it. Also in his sequal 2285 we get to see Delenn go up against her mother quite a sight, she's just like Delenn just without the compassion. Scary. :D
Ohh, Kimberly Januis is good and also at Jumpy. But she writes PWP as well. I'll try to find not so smutty stuff to rec for you. :D
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Date: 2006-09-02 11:35 pm (UTC)This is a relatively big guy, not to mention he's one of my bosses. I'm all of 105 pounds soaking wet. Apparently at some point I soaked up Scully's glare of death or something. o_O So yeah... maybe I could pull off the Ivanova thing....
Eee, I like the extra blazes... oh, I might have to draw this. I've been tempted before, just because the crest is so pretty, but with the blazes.... damn.
And these are on jumpnow.de, right? I'll definitely be looking those up. :D Please, don't worry about sparing me the smut - I'm just fine with that, though I like more gen type fic, too.
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Date: 2006-09-02 11:56 pm (UTC)I love the blue blazes, oh and do you remember back in S1 Delenn had little blue blazes on her fingernails? Well their (Minbari) fingertips are sensitive as well apparently they still are after her change.
Yeah www.jumpnow.de all of the authors I recced are from there, mostly because that's the only site that has a lot of fics. LiveJournal is pretty hoppin' with B5 more than I thought it would anyway. There's Sensitive Bunch community and several others let me put a list together and I'll send it to you.
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Date: 2006-09-03 12:40 am (UTC)(Who, me, reading smut in the middle of the day? No, never....)
(Eeek, fingertips. That's all kinds of bad thoughts right there. :D)
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Date: 2006-09-03 01:41 am (UTC)Delenn and Sheridan going at it on a Minbari style bed. (And seriously those things look damn uncomfortable but for some reason I find them sexy. Oh hell I find everything Minbari sexy especially if Delenn is on it, near it or speaking about it.)
It's getting hot and heavy, screaming, moaning, all kinds of porn stuff going on and then...
Delenn: "OH VALEN!!!!"
:silence:
Sheridan: WTF?!! You went at it with Mr. Monontone?! I thought you had class Delenn! At least I've got a better butt!
Delenn: *John* (whispery voice) He was my people's greatest spiritual leader, I can't help it if I use his name. It's instinctual.
Sheridan: I don't give a good damn! I blew up Z'hadum, I stopped the Shadows and Vorlons, *I* defeated Clark! Why can't you use my name once and a while?!
Delenn: Yes you were wonderful now come back here.
Sheridan: No, I'm gonna go sleep on the couch until you figure out that I am as great as Valen/Sinclair scarboy!
Delenn: (now getting really mad) Fine! Go ahead but let me tell you one thing I don't want to get up in the morning and see that all the nef'ka fruit eaten. Leave some for me.
Sheridan: But they taste like oranges and you won't let me eat oranges anymore!
Delenn: Yes and do you know why? If you would eat me like you eat those oranges you wouldn't be so damn grouchy all the time!
(Sheridan storms off to the Zocolo to buy oranges just out of spite)
Erg. It was supposed to be funny but um yeah. That's why I don't put any of my stuff on the 'net. It's pretty bad, I just like writing for me. And thank god because it's awful. :D
Whatchya' readin'? Anything I know?
Oooh, by the way check out In Valen's Name, Delenn by Frieda Landau it starts from the first season and goes to the end of the fourth. It's in the POV of Delenn writing to Shayal Mayan mostly and it's terribly good. I can hear Mira all thorough it. So good.
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Date: 2006-09-03 05:05 am (UTC)It was one of the Leyenn's stories... I forget which one, now - I read a few and then went upstairs for some tea and sandwiches with the roommates.
Awesome! I love really good Delenn voice in writing... I'm still scared to try writing from her POV myself. Honestly, I think I'm scared to try anybody other than Marcus, Susan, Lennier, and Sheridan. Sheridan is easy - he's just so... simple. I love writing for Marcus and Susan, they have fun ways of thinking. :D
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Date: 2006-09-03 06:22 am (UTC)In Valen's Name, Delenn is spoilery safe I think all the way through but the fourth part might be spoilery so I'm gonna go check that out and see if it is.
Actually Sheridan is the hardest for me, him and Lochley. I think that's because I *hate* Lochley so much, but I try because I figure if I can write her in character and be good at it then I might have a future as a writer. So far my future ain't lookin' so good.
Leyenn's stories:
I forgot to tell you what order those were in because Jumpy doesn't put them in serial order.
Racing Through the Dark
After the Dark
A New Dawn
Light on a Dark Night
What Others See
The Good Within the Bad (Don't read this until after you've watched S5)
Moving Into the Light (Don't read this one either until after you watch S5)
Some of her single fic:
Never Trust A Minbari (S3 Post-Gray 17 is Missing)
Our Own Magic (S4 Post-Into the Fire)
Unspoken Words (S3 Post-Sic Transit Vir)
From Nightmares to Revalations 1&2 (S2 Post-Confessions and Lamentations)
What is Built 1&2 (AU after Z'ahadum)
Different Authors:
Danse Macabre by Gentle
The Journey Home by Gentle
Just Breathe by A.J. Breton
In the Arms of Morpheus by Jeanne
Private Moments/Shared Pleasure by Jeanne (a unique look at the Shan-Fal, the way she used the ritual was interesting it itself.)
Questions and Answers by Jeanne (she wrote this right after Comes the Inquisitor so not all of it follows the show only what she could guess at but very interesting anyway)
Turning Points by Jeanne
I could give you a lot more but I'll save space for now. :D I'm trying to find more Lennier fic, the ones I have found on Jumpy are all after S5 so be careful looking through there some of the summeries are spoilery too. And I'm trying to find more Gen fic as well but again with the spoilers. :D