things are falling

[rivendellrose]

I think my brain is trying to have a spiritual crisis of some kind. This is... not entirely unusual for me, but definitely disconcerting and very difficult to handle. See, there's no support network to speak of for a solitary pagan having a crisis. Most people, if they're having issues with their spirituality, can go to their religious leader... or their congregation... or other practitioners of the same general faith... or even a fair collection of realistic and interesting books on the subject.

Pagans, not so much. At least not pagans who can't tolerate the sort of pseudo-scientific non-rational hocus-pocus that mostly gets published in 'our' name. There are times when I love the individualism of my path... and then there are times when I feel like I'd love someone to just tell me what to do, how to be, where and how I should walk, or at least have a community to talk it over with and share the journey.

The thing is, my spirituality really is desperately important to me. It's just hard to make it fit in this modern world. It's certainly not like I think pagans are the only ones who have a hard time fitting spiritual pursuits into modern lives. I don't have the choice of just... deciding to go to church/synagogue/what-have-you every week, or starting a prayer group or Bible study. I don't even have a text to study - which drives me nuts sometimes, literary-oriented academia-geek that I am.

Layer by layer, I've stripped away a lot of the trappings that my practices once had. For five years, I wore the same ring on the same finger, until I gave it up because the pentacle means something I really don't have that much connection to, and because I thought it might hamper my job search to wear even that small, barely-noticed symbol that a lot of people have bad associations to. Fine, the symbol didn't mean much to me. It was a good way to be recognized by other pagans, but otherwise... What it did mean to me, though, was a constant connection. I literally never took that ring off, for five years. The inside of it was worn glass-smooth from my skin, and the skin where it rested was softer and even a bit lighter than everywhere else. The same thing happened with necklaces - I used to wear a silver tree with a moonstone, and later an amber pendant, both of which had a lot of significance to me. I've traded them both for a sapphire that I wear most days, a graduation gift from my dad. I love it, but it's not the same sort of thing.

I've also peeled back the books that I used to rely on for prayers, and somewhere in that I gave up the prayers as well. I used to pray every night. That sounds kind of nuts for a pagan, I realize, but I did - I literally would not fall asleep without mumbling at least some small litany. Now, gone. Haven't done that in months. I remembered Mabon, the autumn equinox, but I didn't light candles or pray for it. And in the middle of all of this, I begin to feel insane fantasies of... starting a cross-religious retreat center. Or writing books that really deal with the religio-spiritual (did I just make up a word?) and real life aspects of paganism, rather than the bullshit 'spellbooks' that fill most of the section in bookstores. Please - I could write those "spells" with my eyes closed - there's no talent or knowledge required, just a bit of ingenuity, knowledge of mythology, symbolism, and herbs, and familiarity with fantasy literature and/or history. These are not ancient spells and rituals passed down from antiquity; they're pieces of tripe written by either people who want to make a buck off the neo-pagan movement, or deluded hacks who think they've got an inside track to the supernatural because they smoked too much weed back in the 70s. Or yesterday. Whatever.

I want connection with the universe as much as the next person, but I'm not willing to sacrifice rational thought in pursuit of that. The gods granted me a brain with the capacity to think, and I value the scientific method and the processes associated with that. I don't think everything can be handled through that method... but if I can see another, more rational and scientific explanation for something, I'm going to take it into account. There's no nobility in deluding oneself for the sake of comfort.

And therein lies another problem with do-it-yourself spirituality: there is absolutely no one else in the world who can tell you "no, it's okay, you've got it right," and if you're a person like me who is already prone toward skepticism, you're left looking at the little handfuls of emotional and spiritual trinkets that you've saved up over long years of patient gathering, and you think... "holy shit, I'm not even fooling myself." You think "why bother? It's just me shouting to the abyss, jumping up and down and pretending to be important enough for someone, somewhere to notice. What good are these self-aggrandizing prayers and rituals except to pat myself on the back and sing a little lullaby for my rational mind? It's just a childish desire to recapture a past that probably wasn't ever real, to feel a false sense of connection with a universe that doesn't give a damn whether or not I'm dead by morning."

And these moments are horrible, and they may be far between and relatively swift in passing, but there's no one who can say "no, no - it Is Written, see? Right here in this Very Old Book, or the prophecy of someone who was Touched By God. It's not just you. It's all of us. And we're Right." There are no songs to sing and no parables to tell, no connection to "well, so-and-so used to say..." or "when my grandmother did the rituals..." Nope. Nada. Zilch. I could go back far enough to ancestors who might, maybe, have worshipped some of the same gods I do, but they practiced in a totally different way from what I do, and they gave up that faith centuries ago in favor of a new god brought in by foreigners. They carried that god with them across the ocean centuries later. And as much as I try to tell myself that it doesn't matter, that we all suffer the same doubts and confusion and frustration... it's not entirely the same. So there's pride in finding my own way, but there's also a hell of a lot of loneliness, and some days I think I'd be eternally grateful for someone who shares my beliefs... and then I realize I don't know what the hell beliefs I really have that are so damned unique, anyway, and I'd probably strangle someone who had the exact same feelings as me, anyway.

I'm eternally caught between wanting to do more with my religious side, wanting to embrace it, to write about it, read about it, perform rituals, find groups, hell, even try to be an 'example' or maybe even, someday, a little bit of a 'leader.' Sometimes I think I've got that calling. And then the other part of me laughs, pushes the whole thing aside as silly self-indulgence, and I'm right back where I started, wondering what the hell I'm doing with this whole mess. I want ritual and prayer and meaningful practice. It's just damned difficult sometimes.

Comments

[scearley.livejournal.com]

as an instructor in the philosophy of religion, i'm really intrigued.

Watch Sean get disassociative!

On the one hand, you want to find a religious leader for your faith. Someone you can take your fears, hopes, and questions to. On the other, you see those leaders (presumably, those who are published) as incompetent fools. I wonder if you've connected those ideas in your head, and I aslo wonder if the two ideas are related.

I want to suggest philosophical counseling. Counseling, such as you would get from a priest or rabbi or psychologist, but based on the works of western philosophers. Before I suggest any particular philosopher, I'd personally suggest reading either Plato, Not Prozac or Therapy for the Sane by Lou Marinoff.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I live to amuse, I suppose?

I wonder if you've connected those ideas in your head, and I aslo wonder if the two ideas are related.

In a word, probably. It's the skeptic in me - I have a hard time not picking apart anybody who claims to know what they're doing in terms of spirituality, especially if they present themselves as an authority... and especially in the pagan community.

Philosophical counseling... that's definitely a new one for me. I'll look up those books, thank you!

[scearley.livejournal.com]

University of Victoria offers philosophical counseling as an AOS for PhD candidates.

The books should be in the library and at half-price books. I know Lou, and he's the kind of guy who would prefer you read his book rather than worry about paying for it.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Niiiiice. That and stress counseling are both things I can imagine every PhD student needs.

Awesome. Stupid work computer can't access spl.org right now, but I'll put it on my list to get as soon as possible, and pick up from Half-price if it resonates.

[scearley.livejournal.com]

I have plato not prozac at home - you can just take that if you want.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

That's okay, I ought to be able to find it at the library.

To be honest, I'm surprised that your first reaction would be that I needed to find a teacher/leader. Is that a fairly common solution to situations like this in your experience? I have to admit, I think of it as primarily working only for established and fairly centralized religious groups.

[scearley.livejournal.com]

One of the advantages of an organized religion is that there is someone you can take your worries to, your dilemas, your conundrums, and they will give you an answer which satisfies you not necessarily because it's a logical answer, but because you have faith in their answer being correct.

I think a better comparison would be a sponsor in an AA meeting - someone who's been through this, who understands you, who realizes the answers aren't necessarily perfect, but that answers are there. Someone you can ALWAYS count on to be able to give you the answer you need, NOT necessarily the answer you want.

I may have come across as "go find a leader/teacher" because IME those are the people who could give me that answer.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

[...]Someone who's been through this, who understands you, who realizes the answers aren't necessarily perfect, but that answers are there. Someone you can ALWAYS count on to be able to give you the answer you need, NOT necessarily the answer you want.

That's a really good point - a lot of times it doesn't really matter what the answers are, it seems, as long as someone whose opinion and experience you trust gives them in a way that seems authoritative or knowledgable. And most especially that whatever it is isn't just want you want to hear.

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

I don't have any advice, though obviously I empathize with the whole journey difficulty thing. I like this idea about finding someone who doesn't necessarily have the answers but shares the journey.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I like it, too. It's good just to be around other people who are looking, too.

[spazzychic.livejournal.com]

Is is very possible to have all the rites and connection you require without sacrificing anything. It just takes some digging.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I thought you might have some good insight on this one. *Hugs* I know it's possible, deep down, it just feels so totally insurmountable sometimes.

[shoeless-girl.livejournal.com]

As an atheist I don't really have a lot of practical advice, I'm afraid. If you wouldn't mind though, I'd like to talk to Dave about your post. Dave describes himself as a Pagan with Satanic ideals (Satanic obviously in the LaVey sense rather than the eating doves sense).

Dave doesn't really seem to "practice" any rituals. We went to a friend's Summer Solstace last year and I felt really uncomfortable - it was just ritual, with no feeling behind it, you know? I've been more moved in the local Baptist Church, which is saying something. Dave also felt that the ceremony was OTT and unnecessary.

My point - I do have one in here - somewhere - is that unfortunately Paganism is (as far as I understand it) about finding your own way. Which is why so many people like it, I think.

Bleugh, I'm having trouble writing comments this morning. They sound good in my head, but once it comes to trying to express them? Bleugh.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Go right ahead, I don't mind at all.

Sometimes I'm very moved by ritual... and sometimes it's just what you said, just form without feeling, a lot of people doing something because that's the way it's 'done.' And then there's the fairly secular ritual I've been to - just morris dancing in a park on the morning of Beltane - which left me with a wonderful feeling. It's a mixed bag.

You're right about paganism, in general - that does tend to be what it's about, and normally I love that. I do think that I get stymied more than I'd like, though... just kind of stagnated and lost in all the regular hum-drum and lack of focus. I want to try harder with that, and sometimes I think being accountable to someone else, or at least having input from someone I respect and view as semi-authoritative, might make it easier.

[dreamstrifer.livejournal.com]

As a Christian who has friends of other walks of faith and spirituality, I really don't see a lot of people who admit your kind of problems. I mean, a lot of people are so wanting to stick it to Christianity that they won't admit that they too have problems with this like everyone else (hell, I have problems with faith and belief and doubts all the time, and more Christians do than will admit it). It's really interesting to kind of see into your head a little bit about this.

Unfortunately, I have no advice, but the others who already commented seem good. I do hope you find what you're looking for.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

There's such a stigma attached to religious and spiritual doubt, I think. Especially in the major religions, perhaps, because nobody wants to admit that they're having a hard time, feeling like that makes them a bad person. Or, in the less mainstream, it's like a betrayal - you're not what you thought you were, what you told other people you were, all of that. There's so much identity tied up into religious and spiritual ideas.

Thanks. I'm trying to remember to focus on the journey, not the destination... but it's especially interesting if you really don't know where the heck you're going. ;)

[lacrimaeveneris.livejournal.com]

Remember, it's the search for meaning that offers meaning once you reach the destination. I'm still looking too.

Random aside, I stopped wearing my pentacle for the same reason you did.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

That's all I need sometimes - a reminder that other people are searching, too.

There's just so much baggage attached to it, as a symbol. So many wrong impressions and such, and since I'm not actually Wiccan... well, you understand. Maybe I'll find another ring to wear instead, in time.

[amberdiceless.livejournal.com]

I can relate, sort of. I was raised Roman Catholic, started asking the wrong kinds of questions fairly early on, and it just sort of all went downhill from there. I consider myself an agnostic now, precisely because nobody has yet explained it all to me in terms that make sense without referring back to sources whose authority I consider questionable, to put it mildly. You could say I've been having a crisis of faith for, oh...fifteen to twenty years now.

The problem with religion--any religion--is that nobody really knows. Those who claim they do are confusing either the strength of their belief or their familiarity with their chosen canon (or both) with "proof" that their personal understanding of spiritual matters constitutes truth. I consider this naivete at best and gross hubris at worst. Our senses and pure reason fail us past a certain point, and there exists no clear, consistent, and irrefutable explanation of what lies beyond. So we believe whatever we believe, and one day we'll all find out who (if anyone) came closest to being right. (Or possibly we won't, if it turns out the atheists have the right idea, but in that case it will scarcely matter.)

None of which means, of course, that we can't help one another by sharing ideas and insights or by simply saying "Me too." I hope you do find someone who can help you sort out your own personal take on it all.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Our senses and pure reason fail us past a certain point, and there exists no clear, consistent, and irrefutable explanation of what lies beyond. So we believe whatever we believe, and one day we'll all find out who (if anyone) came closest to being right.

Exactly. What bothers me most in any religion are the people who are so confinced that they're right that they spend all kinds of effort trying to win people over to their particular belief set, or settle back with a smug and contented "one of these days you'll be enlightened enough to see it my way" attitude. That honestly bothers me more than the assumption from someone that I'll end up in hell or something for being a godless heathen - at least those people are accepting my personal freedom to decide, if in a completely back-handed way. But that's kind of beside the point.

I hope you can figure out your way, too, if you're still looking - I know a lot of agnostics take the tack that no one can no, so there's not much point in wasting thought on it. It's nice to talk over the confusion, though, especially with people from all different backgrounds.

[iamlovely.livejournal.com]

I'm relatively new to Paganism. Mabon was actually my first solitary ritual. But I really have been feeling quite overwhelmed about it all. So my dear, if you feel like writing/teaching your beliefs, I would love to listen.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I'm certainly more than willing to talk about it with you, if you're willing to do the same! I love chatting about paganism, I'm just usually embarassed to do much of it, because I'm not sure whether it at all interests people.

Maybe I should start by asking what's making you feel overwhelmed? I'm assuming you've found at least one book and/or website... they can make everything seem pretty complicated, especially the rituals. I guess my first recommendation is not to take anything they say in those scripts as the gospel truth. It's easier to stay close to them for a while, probably, while you're new, but don't be afraid to tailor things to what matters to you.

Am I at all on the right track? ;)

[iamlovely.livejournal.com]

Of course I'm willing to do the same! I have NO ONE to talk to about it right now. I guess the most overwhelming thing is the fact that I have to hide it all. My parents are Republican-Christians...so I've been reading late at night and doing rituals very very early in the morning. There's also the constant thought that it's not very beneficial, but at the same time I feel the benefit. I think most of this is just because it's new, and my only resources are books.

Oh don't worry, I've been reading and forming my own opinions. Actually I've started a journal, and I'm writing my own interpretations and modifying rituals to my needs.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Ahhh, that does complicate things. I was lucky with regards to that - my parents for the most part don't care about my being pagan, and it isn't often something that comes up or gets noticed. So, not much good advice on that part... I guess the best thing to do is to keep going the way you are now, and hope that it doesn't become an issue. When you're older and out on your own it might be worthwhile to talk to them about it, at least to the extent of explaining that you aren't following the same beliefs as them... or it might just be easier to avoid the conflict altogether, depending. I'm sure your instincts will lead you right.

The journal is a great idea - I think you'll find it fascinating, as time goes by, to look back on the ideas and thoughts you had when you were just starting out. Embarassing sometimes, too, of course - I'm still boggled by some of the stuff I wrote in middle school, when I first started looking for something. ;)

I'm excited to see how Samhain goes for you - that's always been one of my favorite holidays. There's just so much significance to it, and so much to think about as the world turns to winter.

[niwatorimegami.livejournal.com]

I've considered myself mostly a spiritual rather than a religious person, and that's mostly because any kind of ritual or prayer or text makes me feel like I'm lying to myself. In the end, if I couldn't just trust in something, I didn't want to associate myself with it. But I think that's what most faiths boil down to, you know? Being able to stop asking 'why?' and 'how?' and just trusting that somehow our lives have a significance, a deeper meaning.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I can definitely empathize with that - I generally view rituals and prayers as a sort of a... crutch, I guess, for getting oneself into the right mood and mode of thought. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

*poke* I'm just here because I've been reading your B5 stuff, but would you mind some advice/stories from another quasi-neopagan-wiccan-agnostic-atheist?

I got into neopaganism because I read too much Mercedes Lackey in high school, then asked my mother if she knew anything about Wicca. She gave me The Spiral Dance, and then I think I picked up Wicca for the Solitary Practicioner and Teen Witch (Whee, variant quality!) Then I went to college and started dating a militant atheist and ignoring all of that.

I suppose on most days that makes me an agnostic. But I do believe in connection, in spirituality, in more things in heaven and earth (not necessarily more things than my philosophy can dream of; my philosophy can dream of quite a lot.)

But I've also found that a lot of the things I find spiritually satisfying aren't traditional rituals or written down anywhere. Pardon my language, but I find a lot of the time I make shit up.

And that's okay. For me, anyway. I find that getting outside and taking a walk by the canyon works. Taking little adventures. Finding the box of secrets in the library. All of these things can be spiritual. You don't have to know the names of the forces you're invoking to use the power of ritual, and a ritual doesn't have to be ancient to help you resonate with the universe.

It also helps me to look at people with other faiths and see what they do for ritual; for example, I'm not Jewish, but I have lots of Jewish friends who invite me to seders. And I read Real Live Preacher and Slacktivist, both of whom talk about Christianity and the real world, the former of whom talks about his own crises of faith. It's not just people on a solitary path who have these traumas! (http://www.reallivepreacher.com/ and http://slacktivist.typepad.com/ if you're interested, btw)

And it's my personal belief that one should never approach atheism from the perspective of giving up on religion. Approach atheism from the perspective that the physical universe is just so damn cool that you want to revel in it for a while. Stephen Baxter's fiction helps a lot with that. (Ring and Vacuum Diagrams especially.)

... Aaanyway, this has turned into "how I manage my spirituality", not "can I help you find some answers." I suppose my biggest point is that ritual is there for your connection to the universe, not the universe's connection to you. The universe knows darn well where you are. What you're made of. All the ritual is for you. If it makes you happy, do it. If it makes you uncomfortable, figure out why and change things until you're not uncomfortable any more. It's perfectly okay to be self-indulgent.

Good luck.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you!

Don't worry at all - with the exception of housemates, school friends and a few others, I've met just about everybody here via one fandom or other. Besides, it seems like there's a lot of interesting and very philosophically-inclined folks in B5 fandom. ;)

Making shit up does seem often times to be the best way to go about ritual and practice - it lacks the justification and authority of more organized systems, but on a good day I think that lack is a good thing - it keeps us on our toes, keeps us forever questioning and reconsidering our ideas and practices, and prevents us from falling into dogmatic complacency.

I'm jealous that you have a canyon! The same thing works for me, though - taking a walk outside, digging into a library or used bookstore, listening to music, spending time with friends, writing, drawing... all can feel like aspects of the same process if they're approached right, I think. And you're very right about names being unnecessary.

Visiting and being a guest at religious ceremonies is something I've missed the past few years - in highschool and early in college I visited a number of different religious groups for classes in art history and comp. religion, but I fell out of the habit as soon as it wasn't a requirement anymore. I keep meaning to get back into it... most of my friends in everyday life are either atheist or agnostic, so I don't get a lot of opportunity from that direction. It'd be worth making a point of it again, though. And there's some synchronicity going on here - I just got linked to Slacktivist for a completely different reason this morning, and ended up digging backward through their archives of analysis on the Left Behind books. Fascinating reading (his analysis, not the books themselves...), from both a religious and a literary angle.

The universe knows darn well where you are. What you're made of. All the ritual is for you. That's a lovely way of looking at ritual! This is what I love about talking spirituality over with other people - there's always someone who manages to perfectly verbalize something that I've been trying to figure out how to say for the longest time. Thank you!