buffy, end of s4
Dec. 17th, 2006 12:11 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
rivendellroseToday was sushi with ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
coramegan, sjen, maho_kiwi and laylah, followed by a little bit of Christmas shopping, and attempted writing. And then we watched the end of Buffy S4 tonight, since we only had a few episodes left. Thoughts under the cut on the off-chance that I'm not the last person on earth who hasn't seen this. ;)
On the subject of Angel... I'm embarassed to admit it. I really like the big puppy. I never got it before - I was always totally perplexed by seeing pictures of him and wondering how the hell people found him attractive. And I still don't exactly find him attractive... but he's so cute. Cute like in a scruffle his hair and give him a cookie kind of way. Pat him on the head and tell him 'good puppy.' 'Cause he desperately needs that, and he's such a twisted little moron. I especially liked him giving Riley a dirty smirk in the scene where they confront each other in Buffy's dorm room, and then Buffy accepts Angel's request to leave the room to talk with him. He looks so damned smug in that moment, and I wanted to snuggle him. Him and Buffy have great chemistry, I think, and they're so damned similar. That's not necessarily a good thing, particularly not for either of them because they're both screwed up little angst-whore twits. But it makes me terribly fond of them, particularly together. I suppose I'm in the minority on this one, but there you go.
In case you couldn't tell by that sentiment, I still haven't warmed to Riley. I don't know what it is. He's a decent enough looking guy, decent personality, decently interesting storyline... and maybe that's really what it comes down to. Everything about him is decent enough, I just can't seem to work up any interest in him. It's a long-standing failing of mine - I tend to dislike or get bored by the "righteous but uncertain Common Man" character. At best, I find Riley vaguely endearing. At worst, I find him boring, deluded, or plain irritating. I've never gotten on well with the Joe American type, which he seems to embody in the extreme, so I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise.
As a side-note, in the scene where he's talking to Angel in the alley, Riley falls into perfect Mal-speak. I wonder if Joss had started working on Firefly yet at this point? A few more bits in the season finale reminded me of Firefly (specifically, dream-Buffy reminding me of River), and it would be interesting to see if that was pre-sparks, or creative leakage. So to speak. ;)
The solution to the situation with Adam seemed a little 'pastede on' if you'll forgive the netspeak... but it was an interesting idea. And I think Joss had a lot of fun doing the huge battle scenes inside the Initiative. So good on him. Shining point of the whole two-part episode, IMHO, was Spike. Cunning, vicious, clever, but inevitably spazzy and unsuccessful Spike. He's so wonderful in his complete ineptitude and the adorably evil joy he takes in fucking with Buffy & Co. And he does such a brilliant job of bringing all their fears to the fore.
Also... drunken Giles. I don't really have anything to say about this, I just had to say that.He's so cute when he's drunk and stupid! ♥
The dream episode was all kinds of bizarre and interesting. And, in several parts, disturbing. Though not always in ways that Joss intended.
Willow's dream was mostly interesting to me in that I recognized so much of it from my own dreams. The whole play dream? I've had that one more times than I care to count. I found the whole thing with Harmony really interesting - she's an important part of Willow's psyche, it seems, and remains a sort of personal demon in a way that I find very realistic to their past. I kept feeling like there was something to the way she kept hanging on and trying to bite Giles, but I can't quite tease it out yet. Riley as a dumb cowboy was pretty much the most accurate vision of him that we've ever seen. :P And, before I forget, wow did I love the thing with Willow writing on Tara's back. In Greek. Sappho no less. Eee. Now that's just lovely. Also, the bit with the kitty stalking toward the desert... very nice.
Xander's dream was... very Xander. I was annoyed that in the commentary Joss referred to both the "friend's mom" bit and the "trying to pee in front of a crowd of people" thing as universals. Maybe I'm out of touch, but I doubt either of those are common occurrences in women's dreams. I know I've never had either. So.
If I occasionally have trouble understanding Giles' mumblings in English, imagine my frustration at the bit he spoke in French. I didn't pay enough attention to the voice to determine whether it was Anthony Head or someone else, but whoever it was got exactly the right level of incomprehensibility into his mumbling. Drove me up the wall - my French comprehension is bad, now, but it's not that bad! At least I hope it's not.
And all the Apocalypse Now stuff just sent my brain screaming back to high school English, in which we were forced to watch that movie after reading "Heart of Darkness." Most emphatically not my kind of movie. I liked the bit here with Snyder (yay for having him back for a bit), and it tied... interestingly with the First Slayer thing. I'll get back to her in a minute.
The monster for Xander is less the First Slayer than it is his lack of direction and his relationship with his father. Very interesting.
Giles' dream... started out with a disturbing sort of bang, for me. The image of him hypnotizing Buffy, okay, that's interesting... but the talk of men and women and such kind of made me go "please gods don't go fanfic on me, please, please, please." There was something very intimate about that first scene that put me off and kind of freaked me out. It's very true to the Issues that surround the complex relationship Giles has with Buffy, but I still found it creepy and discomforting. Particularly since I associate the hypnotism thing with the whole weird drugging-for-the-test incident in the previous season. Joss didn't indicate such a conscious connection in the commentary, but I can't help seeing a similarity.
And then, straight off from that bit, something else that bothers me - Olivia. I know, I know - if I say that I don't like her, I come off as being jealous and/or refusing to accept her because she's not Jenny, who, admittedly, I did some major identification with really really fast and was heartbroken to see killed off. (What was I supposed to do? I already adored Giles, and then along comes this adorably snarky, and by the way very hot, intelligent woman he's in love with, and by the way she's a pagan and she's got my first name. And they were so cute together. I didn't have a chance against all of that!) And I won't say that isn't a factor in my vaguely disliking Olivia. But here's the bigger thing - she just kind of... appears. And then disappears. And then appears again. We get no backstory, no real idea of who she is, why she's here, what she's like... nothing. She's just there. Or isn't. I don't really feel like we're given any reasons to be attached to her. I tried very hard to keep an open mind (because of the afore-mentioned predisposition against her), but I just can't seem to work up any kind of feeling beyond "oh, are you still here?" This may, I emphasize, be intensely associated with the fact that I'm still kind of caught up on the whole Giles and Jenny thing. But there's my two cents, nonetheless.
This was the third episode almost in a row in which Giles sings. My compliments to the Joss. He knows how to make use of his actors. And also how to make me go "squee." ;)
And then Buffy's dream. Not much to say, here, for me, except that now's as good a time as any to point in the general direction of the race dynamic set up with the First Slayer (and, in a very tangential way, the anonymous black guy in the background of the "Snyder is Kurtz" scene, which, yes, is a reference to the movie, but still plays into the pattern in a strange way). I might have just pretended this whole bestial African slayer thing didn't happen if it weren't for the way Joss, in his commentary, repeatedly refers to her as "the primative." I think he meant this to mean her symbolically as a primative imperative, the primative side of Buffy's slayer powers... but it came across in a very racially charged way that kind of upset me. As has been pointed out before, Joss needs to pay more attention to how he handles race. I fully believe that he has the best intentions, but he comes off badly in things like this, I think.
And the cheese man. Because he's the cheese man, and because that was kind of delightful in its sheer dreamy randomness.
coramegan, sjen, maho_kiwi and laylah, followed by a little bit of Christmas shopping, and attempted writing. And then we watched the end of Buffy S4 tonight, since we only had a few episodes left. Thoughts under the cut on the off-chance that I'm not the last person on earth who hasn't seen this. ;)On the subject of Angel... I'm embarassed to admit it. I really like the big puppy. I never got it before - I was always totally perplexed by seeing pictures of him and wondering how the hell people found him attractive. And I still don't exactly find him attractive... but he's so cute. Cute like in a scruffle his hair and give him a cookie kind of way. Pat him on the head and tell him 'good puppy.' 'Cause he desperately needs that, and he's such a twisted little moron. I especially liked him giving Riley a dirty smirk in the scene where they confront each other in Buffy's dorm room, and then Buffy accepts Angel's request to leave the room to talk with him. He looks so damned smug in that moment, and I wanted to snuggle him. Him and Buffy have great chemistry, I think, and they're so damned similar. That's not necessarily a good thing, particularly not for either of them because they're both screwed up little angst-whore twits. But it makes me terribly fond of them, particularly together. I suppose I'm in the minority on this one, but there you go.
In case you couldn't tell by that sentiment, I still haven't warmed to Riley. I don't know what it is. He's a decent enough looking guy, decent personality, decently interesting storyline... and maybe that's really what it comes down to. Everything about him is decent enough, I just can't seem to work up any interest in him. It's a long-standing failing of mine - I tend to dislike or get bored by the "righteous but uncertain Common Man" character. At best, I find Riley vaguely endearing. At worst, I find him boring, deluded, or plain irritating. I've never gotten on well with the Joe American type, which he seems to embody in the extreme, so I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise.
As a side-note, in the scene where he's talking to Angel in the alley, Riley falls into perfect Mal-speak. I wonder if Joss had started working on Firefly yet at this point? A few more bits in the season finale reminded me of Firefly (specifically, dream-Buffy reminding me of River), and it would be interesting to see if that was pre-sparks, or creative leakage. So to speak. ;)
The solution to the situation with Adam seemed a little 'pastede on' if you'll forgive the netspeak... but it was an interesting idea. And I think Joss had a lot of fun doing the huge battle scenes inside the Initiative. So good on him. Shining point of the whole two-part episode, IMHO, was Spike. Cunning, vicious, clever, but inevitably spazzy and unsuccessful Spike. He's so wonderful in his complete ineptitude and the adorably evil joy he takes in fucking with Buffy & Co. And he does such a brilliant job of bringing all their fears to the fore.
Also... drunken Giles. I don't really have anything to say about this, I just had to say that.
The dream episode was all kinds of bizarre and interesting. And, in several parts, disturbing. Though not always in ways that Joss intended.
Willow's dream was mostly interesting to me in that I recognized so much of it from my own dreams. The whole play dream? I've had that one more times than I care to count. I found the whole thing with Harmony really interesting - she's an important part of Willow's psyche, it seems, and remains a sort of personal demon in a way that I find very realistic to their past. I kept feeling like there was something to the way she kept hanging on and trying to bite Giles, but I can't quite tease it out yet. Riley as a dumb cowboy was pretty much the most accurate vision of him that we've ever seen. :P And, before I forget, wow did I love the thing with Willow writing on Tara's back. In Greek. Sappho no less. Eee. Now that's just lovely. Also, the bit with the kitty stalking toward the desert... very nice.
Xander's dream was... very Xander. I was annoyed that in the commentary Joss referred to both the "friend's mom" bit and the "trying to pee in front of a crowd of people" thing as universals. Maybe I'm out of touch, but I doubt either of those are common occurrences in women's dreams. I know I've never had either. So.
If I occasionally have trouble understanding Giles' mumblings in English, imagine my frustration at the bit he spoke in French. I didn't pay enough attention to the voice to determine whether it was Anthony Head or someone else, but whoever it was got exactly the right level of incomprehensibility into his mumbling. Drove me up the wall - my French comprehension is bad, now, but it's not that bad! At least I hope it's not.
And all the Apocalypse Now stuff just sent my brain screaming back to high school English, in which we were forced to watch that movie after reading "Heart of Darkness." Most emphatically not my kind of movie. I liked the bit here with Snyder (yay for having him back for a bit), and it tied... interestingly with the First Slayer thing. I'll get back to her in a minute.
The monster for Xander is less the First Slayer than it is his lack of direction and his relationship with his father. Very interesting.
Giles' dream... started out with a disturbing sort of bang, for me. The image of him hypnotizing Buffy, okay, that's interesting... but the talk of men and women and such kind of made me go "please gods don't go fanfic on me, please, please, please." There was something very intimate about that first scene that put me off and kind of freaked me out. It's very true to the Issues that surround the complex relationship Giles has with Buffy, but I still found it creepy and discomforting. Particularly since I associate the hypnotism thing with the whole weird drugging-for-the-test incident in the previous season. Joss didn't indicate such a conscious connection in the commentary, but I can't help seeing a similarity.
And then, straight off from that bit, something else that bothers me - Olivia. I know, I know - if I say that I don't like her, I come off as being jealous and/or refusing to accept her because she's not Jenny, who, admittedly, I did some major identification with really really fast and was heartbroken to see killed off. (What was I supposed to do? I already adored Giles, and then along comes this adorably snarky, and by the way very hot, intelligent woman he's in love with, and by the way she's a pagan and she's got my first name. And they were so cute together. I didn't have a chance against all of that!) And I won't say that isn't a factor in my vaguely disliking Olivia. But here's the bigger thing - she just kind of... appears. And then disappears. And then appears again. We get no backstory, no real idea of who she is, why she's here, what she's like... nothing. She's just there. Or isn't. I don't really feel like we're given any reasons to be attached to her. I tried very hard to keep an open mind (because of the afore-mentioned predisposition against her), but I just can't seem to work up any kind of feeling beyond "oh, are you still here?" This may, I emphasize, be intensely associated with the fact that I'm still kind of caught up on the whole Giles and Jenny thing. But there's my two cents, nonetheless.
This was the third episode almost in a row in which Giles sings. My compliments to the Joss. He knows how to make use of his actors. And also how to make me go "squee." ;)
And then Buffy's dream. Not much to say, here, for me, except that now's as good a time as any to point in the general direction of the race dynamic set up with the First Slayer (and, in a very tangential way, the anonymous black guy in the background of the "Snyder is Kurtz" scene, which, yes, is a reference to the movie, but still plays into the pattern in a strange way). I might have just pretended this whole bestial African slayer thing didn't happen if it weren't for the way Joss, in his commentary, repeatedly refers to her as "the primative." I think he meant this to mean her symbolically as a primative imperative, the primative side of Buffy's slayer powers... but it came across in a very racially charged way that kind of upset me. As has been pointed out before, Joss needs to pay more attention to how he handles race. I fully believe that he has the best intentions, but he comes off badly in things like this, I think.
And the cheese man. Because he's the cheese man, and because that was kind of delightful in its sheer dreamy randomness.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2006-12-17 05:18 pm (UTC)I think the important thing about Riley wasn't that he was 'all American Joe' but a normal guy. Someone so very unlike Angel. It comes across more in Season 5, early on, I would say.
And see! Xander! You're warming up to him! It takes a while but you eventually cave to the dorky ones! Ha-ha! >=D
no subject
Date: 2006-12-17 07:26 pm (UTC)True, true. Not so much a normal guy that he can't have a chip in his brain and be called brother by a Frankenstein thing, but still. Still, he kind of makes me go "bleh" for no real reason other than not being nearly as fun to make fun of as Angel. ;)
I've been warming up to him for a while. I just keep quiet about it. He's a good guy. Just not anything I'm totally fascinated by or anything.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-17 05:48 pm (UTC)SO MUCH LOVE for Willow's dream! So much love for Willow and Tara in general.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-17 07:23 pm (UTC)Gods yes. They're so cute!
no subject
Date: 2006-12-17 05:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-12-17 07:21 pm (UTC)And you know I'm always up for revisiting the better episodes. I'm already planning on watching the Halloween and Thanksgiving ones again as soon as possible. ;)
no subject
Date: 2006-12-17 11:20 pm (UTC)I agree with you about corn-fed Iowa boy..er..Riley. I know what Joss was going for with that relationship, but it never really worked for me. I truly hated Deadboy on Buffy, but at least I could admire the passion and energy of the Buffy and Angel dynamic. For me, Riley had all the zest of a potato sitting in the sun. And not the fun steal-your-brain-zombie-potatos either.
I think the dream ep was, overall, actually one of my favorites. There was just something so random yet deep that made me go "ooh" all over the place. Plus, any ep that puts a mic in Giles' hands is automatically squee worthy.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-18 02:30 am (UTC)The thing about Angel... I don't know. He's obnoxious and broody and stalkerish and, yes, he killed one of my favorite characters, the bastard. On the other hand, he has personality, and the puppy-face never fails to sort of make me go "aww." Better yet, when he's evil, he's deliciously horrible. I wanted to strangle him. But... you know... evoking emotion! Whereas Riley... you said it with the potato thing. He's got no kind of charisma at all. Bleh.
I think the thing I liked best about it was that it really was like a dream. Not like an episode trying to be dream-like, but actually like a dream. Which is a wonderful thing for a writer to really pull off.
That, and obviously I get giddy over anything with Giles singing. ...Or Giles doing much of anything, really. I think he's cute when he's crashed out on the couch, for crying out loud. :P