I would call this medieval, but that's an insult to the middle ages

[rivendellrose]

(This link snagged from the clever lovelies) Just in case anyone thought the Vatican wasn't still living in the same cave it's been living in since the 9th century or so: "The Vatican’s representative in the United Nations is opposing a measure calling on governments around the world to decriminalize homosexuality — including countries which impose the death penalty on gays."

Also, apparently, decriminalizing homosexuality somehow "could lead to reverse discrimination against traditional heterosexual marriage." Because if people have the option of being gay without being killed for it, they might all give up heterosexuality!

Screw you, Archbishop Celestino Migliore.

Added: And now I'm all pissed off - I wish people wouldn't be stupid first thing in the morning. It just ruins my mood for the whole day. In a petty and helpless effort at retaliation (or at least to settle my heart, which, between getting angry over this and having had a single, small cup of coffee this morning, is going a little bit nuts), I'm going to go listen to John Barrowman singing a bunch of soppy ballads. So there. :P

Comments

[babel.livejournal.com]

Didn't you know? Heterosexual marriages created to avoid suspicion of homosexuality is a long-standing and totally sacred tradition that should be upheld in any way possible.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Lol. True! One of the most historically-accurate statements I've heard in connection to this whole mess.

People just fascinate me.

[lovelies.livejournal.com]

If we allow gay marriage, the gay conspiracy will obviously start lobbying for the end of traditional heterosexual marriage next!

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Oh, right! Because we all hate straights and the idea of heterosexuality. I forgot. I really need to keep notes on these things. I'll add hating heterosexuality to my list, right under worshiping the devil and torturing communion wafers, which I'm required by law to do, or I lose my God-hating Atheist card. :P

[lovelies.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I've got to get me one of them cards.

I hate coming to this kind of stuff first thing in the morning too. Or any time of the day, really, but especially in the morning. I hope JB lifted your mood!

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I'm half-tempted to make a template, now that I think about it, and see about getting one printed out. It'd be an amusing project in Photoshop. ;)

[beam-oflight.livejournal.com]

ZOMG the Gay Agenda is coming to get us all! They want to get rid of teh hetrosex ZOMG!

Bleh, fucking Vatican, this is so ridiculous, wtf is wrong with these people!

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Oh, the Gay Agenda. Honestly (because the Gay Agenda always reminds me of Russell Davies, and I can't resist the urge to bitch about him once I've thought about him...), I think he's actually done worse for gays in Doctor Who than he has for anybody else. I'm becoming seriously convinced he's got a self-hatred complex re: his sexuality, but that's probably a rant for another day.

Suffice to say, I wish the freaking Vatican would get their heads out of their collective asses and stop being such total morons about other peoples' business.

[beam-oflight.livejournal.com]

haha, yeah I think you may be right there, but teh 'Gay Agenda' just makes me think of Doctor Who 'cos apparently it was there before RTD, but he certainly fired it back up.

You seem to have extra RTD hate atm, Xmas special nerves?

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Oh, the agenda definitely existed before Davies (see above - no one is gayer than Three and Delgado!Master), but... in the words of that infamous internet meme, he's doin' it wrong. :P

As far as I'm concerned, the best he's managed is having the occasional gay character... who inevitably suffers the same fate as any character of a racial minority (ie, death) or... is Jack. Who appears, while willing to have sex with men, to fall in love with women, which is apparently (according to my roommate, who's seen more of Davies' stuff than I have) an ongoing theme in Davies' writing. Male companions, with exception of Jack, are used entirely for the purpose of making the Doctor look good by comparison to them (Mickey, Adam, etc), and... every time we've seen a woman who likes other women, she's turned out to be flat-out EVIL. I think Jake Simmonds is the only gay character we've seen who hasn't either died or turned out evil (or been Jack - who dies all the time and is apparently in love with Gwen and Rose).

And I'm going to stop now before I end up writing you a whole essay about Davies and his screwed up sexuality politics. Basically, as much as I'm happy that gay characters don't have to be closeted anymore, I think they got better treatment in the old days.

Yeah, after last year I'm pretty much just afraid of the Christmas special. It's less than two weeks away, and all I can think of are the innumerable ways Davies could make me want to throw things at the television. Which is just sad, because I genuinely want to enjoy David Tennant's last year, and... I'm afraid I'll be too busy being pissed off at Davies to really appreciate it.

[beam-oflight.livejournal.com]

Jack. Who appears, while willing to have sex with men, to fall in love with women,
And teh Doctor of course, because everyone has to fall in love with the Doctor.

And yes I completly agree with you, can some one invent a time machine and go and stop RTD getting anywhere near my sci-fi!

While I'm excited about teh Xmas special the clips I've seen so far don't look good, and I'm worriedit's going to be more cracktastic crap. Counting down to Moffat!

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Since everybody falls in love with the Doctor, it feels like it hardly counts, sometimes. (Although I still adore Jack and Nine together. Jack is so in love with him, and Nine is so... snarky and pissy and secretly fond of Jack. ♥)

I wish. :P Which is probably unfair, 'cause he did some awesome stuff in terms of actually bringing the show back, but... but... grr.

Exactly. I've been trying to avoid spoilers (although I watched the Children in Need special, of course), exactly because if I hear them I figure I'll just get upset. Better to go in without expectations. Or try to, at least.

Moffat! He won't be perfect, but at least he'll be different!

[kusanivy.livejournal.com]

And teh Doctor of course, because everyone has to fall in love with the Doctor.

I've been yelled at for being snobby and old-school about this but I kinda miss the days when everyone didn't fall in love with the Doctor - or at least if they did they weren't so blatant about it.

I can be as hopeless and mushy a romantic as the next person but platonic can be good too!
(mind you I think this is more a personal backlash on my part towards Fandom's obsession with shipping)

[beam-oflight.livejournal.com]

I completly agree, it's just getting a bit ridiculous now, especially with teh whole completely OTT Rose thing.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

I've been yelled at for being snobby and old-school about this but I kinda miss the days when everyone didn't fall in love with the Doctor - or at least if they did they weren't so blatant about it.

Yeah, I'm right there with you on that subject. I mean, I definitely think some of the old companions were in love with the Doctor (Jo Grant comes immediately to mind, although honestly I suspect she was also aware that he had no interest in her that way and didn't feel at all broken up over that - she's too practical to get upset over that kind of thing!), but I like that it's not beat-you-over-the-head, so that I can pick and choose as I like. I prefer to think Sarah Jane and the Doctor were just best friends, and that Sarah liked it that way. Other people prefer to think they were lovers. And in old school Who, both choices are just as appropriate, and have plenty of evidence to back them in canon.

(...Of course, then Russell Davies came along and made it a lot messier, so maybe Sarah's not the best example. Alas.)

Anyway, I love to pair pairings, but... I love to have the option of ignoring them, too, if I so choose. I adored Rose and the Doctor as friends... but I wish Davies had left it open for me to ignore the romantic angle of that relationship, 'cause it did less than nothing for me. Just not my cup of tea.

[kusanivy.livejournal.com]

Exactly - just like there are tonnes of different ways you could take the 4th Doctor and Romana II. You can read into them as friends or you can totally read into them as lovers.

I was fine with Rose at the beginning - and then her feelings for the Doctor (and his in return :P) became more and more blatant. What really irritates me about her is her whole "Doctor! Look! Look at me!" mentality (I am of course being slightly facetious). She seems oblivious to the fact that the Doctor knows and interacts with other people. I mean the world was about to be destroyed and she was all "but Doctor look at me! I came back for YOU! Hellooooo! I'm right here!"

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

...The world was about to be destroyed and she was all "but Doctor look at me! I came back for YOU! Hellooooo! I'm right here!"

This. Is exactly how I felt about Rose in that episode. ♥ "OMG, ME ME ME ME ME!!!" I swear, I'd had such high hopes about them maybe letting her grow up a little and realize that maybe centering her entire concept of the universe on this one guy was possibly not the best way to live, but nooooo. We can't have any of that! I realize she's still nineteen, and yeah, acting like that is pretty accurate for a typical teenager, but it just made me want to smack her. Or possibly grab Davies by the ears and shake him for not being able to write women whose lives and self-worth aren't completely based on what men think about them. That really pisses me off.

(This is all part of why I love Four/Romana II so much - not only is she so not impressed by him, being a Time Lord herself, but she's perfectly happy to run off and do her own thing when the time comes. Rather than getting *stuck* in an alternate universe, she's happy to run off into one willingly and have adventures all on her own. ♥ I tend to assume they were lovers (because OMG the chemistry in some scenes!), but either way I think their relationship was much more mature than Ten and Rose.)

[irishninja.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

It's this kind of outdated BS that prevents me from rejoining mainstream Christianity. >:(

I much prefer the Catholic Church as envisioned in my Warmakers game universe, where it and its members are always the good guys. ;)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

No kidding. The thing that really galls me is that these kinds of religious figures are always the ones going on about how morality can't come without God, without the church people wouldn't know how to be good, and how atheists are all horrible people who hate the world. Fuck that.

[irishninja.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree. While roughly 1/3 of the human population self-identifies as being Christian, which makes it the largest generalized religion by a fairly large margin, that is STILL a minority. So when Xtians (because, even though I'm sure fanatics of other faiths make the same ludicrous claims, America remains a Xtian nation) claims that humans can't possibly understand (their version of) morality without their God's teachings, I wonder if they realize that 2/3 of human beings do just that.

Ghandi said it best: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Exactly. I may disagree completely with most Christians on most things, but I have a niggling feeling that Christ would be fine with most of the stuff the major churches are so hell-bent on preventing. It's hard to tell for sure, of course, but... what we 'know' about him as a person sure as hell would indicate that he'd be one of those horrible liberal hippies the conservative Christians hate so much.

[irishninja.livejournal.com]

Yup! There are those who go so far as to call him the first hippie. ;) Minus the VW minibus and weed, of course. :D

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Oh, certainly. And you never know what kind of crazy stuff they might've been using out there in the desert... ;)

[irishninja.livejournal.com]

ROFL!!!! ^_^

[cyranocyrano.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there was a reason I stopped turning on CNN in the morning as I got ready for work. I'd go all Lewis Black at something and then have to post and then I'd be late and pissed off.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Yeeeeeah. We usually have NPR, but I overslept this morning and didn't catch more than the weather before running out the door. :P

[hoperomantic.livejournal.com]

And this folks is why I weep for humanity... because too often humans are not humane.

[narsilion.livejournal.com]

Amen and Amen!

[tonsai.livejournal.com]

Did you catch Jon Stewart kicking Mike Huckabee's ass over gay marriage? http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=213349&title=Mike-Huckabee-Pt.-2

BTW, and I'm sure you know this, but I know a LOT of Catholics who completely disagree with Church leadership on this and many other issues. One thing they do agree with is their stance on the death penalty, which is to say, it's not okay. It strikes me as particularly disingenuous that some closet-case archbishop would rush to object to a resolution that would, in part, denounce the death penalty.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Oh, sweet. I ♥ Stewart so much. ♥

As for the difference between Catholics and what the church itself says, yeah, that's definitely a good point. I don't think I've ever met a Catholic who agreed with a lot of the stuff the church does, regarding homosexuality, but that just makes this kind of attitude from the Vatican even worse. They're not answerable to anybody, you know? Not even their own parishioners. And yet they can go to the UN and claim that this is the will of the Catholic world. That seems just downright wrong to me.

It strikes me as particularly disingenuous that some closet-case archbishop would rush to object to a resolution that would, in part, denounce the death penalty.

Exactly! It's like the folks who are against abortion and the death penalty, but blow up doctor's offices - it's that same kind of disconnect. I just can't even begin to understand it.