getting close to the end...

[rivendellrose]

Okay. The last few episodes have been awesome.



Augh, only 15 minutes to talk about these before my lunch is over, and I don't want to wait or I'll end up talking about the entire end of the series in one entry, and that's never a good idea. So! Briefly touching on the highs and lows!

The Oath

Zarek kills the Quorum. Oh my god. Bastard! Bastard bastard bastard. Also, Starbuck and Lee may annoy the living hell out of me when they're being angsty about their doomed romance, but I love them as bad-ass guerilla warriors. ...Okay, I could probably care less whether Lee was there, if I'm honest, but seriously, that rocked. Same goes for Tigh and Adama rocking the grey-haired side of the brothers-in-arms thing, and Adama getting a good snog in before sending Roslin off with one of the Eights to go be president-in-exile on the base star. Big points for style, there, boys.

Bad news: it is apparently impossible for any male crew-member to hate Athena without sexualizing the hatred and threatening rape. Really, guys, was it necessary to give me that flashback to "Pegasus?" And after I had just told miss_arel that it really did get better after that and nothing similar ever happened again? Fortunately, nothing actually happened... except poor Helo getting knocked out and spending 98.5% of this story arc unconscious. *Headdesk* Sweetie, people might like you more if you managed to stay conscious and do something!

Blood on the Scales

Really nice fake-out with Adama's execution ("Hey, I know how we can totally gut the audience without actually killing Adama! We'll show it in a vision!"), and an absolutely awesome scene where Tyrol lays on the floor too tired to move, having a whole (hilarious!) conversation with a marine who has a gun trained on his head. And the marine eventually realizes that no, he just can't kill a guy he's having a bonding moment with. Bless.

Meanwhile, Gaeta begins to get the memo that he signed up with the wrong side in this little mishap. Way to go, pal. If only you'd thought of that before the whole Quorum was murdered.

Sam gets horribly horribly horribly shot, Romo is a hero (I apologize for ever insinuating that he was anything like Badger except for the awesome bits), there's a lot of other mess and havoc, and Roslin is scary over the radio. Several times. Daaaaaaaammnnnnn. How has everyone on the fleet not yet figured out that they do not want to screw with that woman, yet? o_O

No Exit

Ellen pretends to be Eve, reveals that she made the later Cylons, and that she's actually quite awesome when she's not around Tigh. Boomer proves to actually have a spine hidden somewhere, and I cheer.

Meanwhile, the bullet in Sam's head has broken some kind of block he had, so he tells the other three Cylons the story of their lives on Earth, and remembers some guy named Daniel, who Ellen's talk reveals to have been the Seventh Cylon, who was apparently an artsy type. Everyone in the world wonders if this could possibly be Starbuck somehow (or at least I know I did...)

Deadlock

In which it turns out that no, Ellen is still an annoying bitch as soon as she's in a room with Tigh. Great. I really liked her in the previous episode, but it was as if the minute she stepped off that raptor, she became instantly annoying as hell. WTF.

Tyrol inexplicably wants to leave the fleet (really?), and so do Ellen and Tori (unsurprising...), leaving Tigh and unconscious-Sam in a bad position. Then Ellen (and some Sons of Ares asshats) cause Caprica to lose her pregnancy, and I want to snuggle her. :(

Adama freaks the hell out about putting some Cylon goop on the ship so that it won't fall apart from the inside, and then he and Roslin see one of the Cylons putting up pictures in the Hall of Death of the Cylons who have died since the Alliance (really, there's been that many?), one of whom apparently took part in a very bare-bones fashion shoot at some point. Well, why not, I suppose? The Cylons do seem weirdly fashion-conscious.

Augh, these have all been so good. I don't want it to go bad!

Also, I've finally given up on avoiding IMDB and went there last night because The Boy was talking about something that Alessandro Juliani (sp?) was in, and... I've just spent four seasons confused about the names... of two of my favorite minor characters. *Headdesk* It's not my fault that Tamoh looks kind of like a girl's name... *>_>* No need to shame me, I assure you that I feel quite silly for the whole thing. Aaaaaanyway....

Comments

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

I didn't get around to commenting on your previous entry because I've never had the spare hour lying around to discuss my Thoughts on those episodes. Heh.

The Oath/Blood on the Scales is just absolutely epic television. Amazing. "I will use every bomb, every bullet, every weapon I have down to my own eye teeth to end you." Rosssssssslin. Girl.

Oh! I can use these icons now!

Hee, which actors did you confuse?

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Heheheheh, yeah, that's been a little bit of a problem for me with the entries, honestly - trying to find time at work to write up things, since I'm supposed to be NaNo-ing whenever I'm at the computer at home...

"I will use every bomb, every bullet, every weapon I have down to my own eye teeth to end you." Rosssssssslin. Girl.

YES! ♥ I was so happy. So awesome.

Ooooooo icon!

*Coughs* So, I'd done a good job of picking up the main actors' names from you and icepixie's comments about them, but I was a little at sea on minor actors, and, well, in my experience a name as unusual as Tahmoh tends to be a girl. So, by sheer random association, I had got into my head that was Kandyse McClure's name, whereas I'd left the actor playing Helo off in a "no way of knowing, as men's names are too damned generic" category.

Serves me right for staying away from IDMB, but after Billy died I realized that if I went over there I'd be likely to see things like someone having vastly fewer episodes to their name than everybody else, so I thought it was safer to stay away until we got close to the end (by which point any discrepency in the counts for whoever remained would be less obvious).

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

Oh my God, the first five or six episodes of B5 I watched, where I didn't know which actor played which character. And you're probably thinking, but honey, it says so in the credits. I didn't know the character's names. I don't know why I had such a hard time with it! I seriously finally got on IMDB because I was like, Jesus Christ, which one of them is G'Kar and which is Londo and which is Vir and who the fuck is Lennier, I haven't even heard of this guy.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Lol. I don't feel quite so bad, then. I had help on B5, since I had friends hand-holding me through the whole thing, but... yeah, I can easily imagine it'd be horrible for names if you didn't have that.

and who the fuck is Lennier, I haven't even heard of this guy.

*Snerk* Poor Lennier. ;)

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

I think it was because Lennier didn't show up in the first couple episodes - I can't remember which one was his first one, but he's like the last regular we meet, right? So I'd be watching the opening credits, trying to put faces to names, and he would pop up, and I would just be like...who is Lennier.

[icepixie]

Yaaaaay, these episodes! They were like a month-long adrenaline rush. And what few pieces of my soul Laura didn't own before, she took possession of when she continually got on the radio to foil Team Gaeta, and then of course with the "I'm coming for all of you!" speech referenced in my icon. (That would be the reason this episode ties with "The Hub" for my favorite, yes.)

I wanted to tell you last time that Ellen gets better and makes more sense as the final Cylon, but I didn't want to ruin the surprise. I was shocked at how much I liked her in "No Exit," and how believable she was as the creator of the other Cylons. And she gets points for noting how VERY INCREDIBLY CREEPY IT IS that Tigh basically knocked up his "daughter." Ewwwwwwwwwwww. Also, the baby dying because its parents stopped loving each other for a moment made me headdesk into next week. Ugggghhhhhh. I chose to believe that it was not genetically viable enough to continue. (Though I did kind of love Tigh's "I shouldn't have to say it" dialogue. I would've liked Tigh/Caprica if not for the incestuous overtones.)

Everyone in the world wonders if this could possibly be Starbuck somehow (or at least I know I did...)

You are definitely not alone. :D

I thought it was cool in "The Oath" when they played on the similarities between Roslin and Baltar, in that they were both kind of mired in corruption, and lacked good people-choosing skills. Plus, "I never really believed in your conversion, so I was counting on your well-honed sense of self-preservation," is one of the best lines of the season. :D

It's not my fault that Tamoh looks kind of like a girl's name...

*snerk* You must have been confused when I gave you his name for the create your own fake TV show meme...

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

the baby dying because its parents stopped loving each other for a moment

.......we're not actually meant to think that's what happened, are we? o_O

I would've liked Tigh/Caprica if not for the incestuous overtones.

Me too! I really liked them up until that whole thing... and honestly it took a while for the insinuations to sink in, there...

Not particularly - I had somehow gotten his name tacked onto poor Kandyse McClure (it's always more common around here, at least, for girls to have the unusual names!) and I adore her, so I thought nothing of it. (And I really will do that meme! I've been thinking about it, it just got eaten up by NaNo...)

[icepixie]

.......we're not actually meant to think that's what happened, are we? o_O

I think we are? That was what I got out of it, anyway, especially since "love" had been the key component of Hera's conception.

And I really will do that meme! I've been thinking about it, it just got eaten up by NaNo...

Yay meme!

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

That was what I got out of it, anyway, especially since "love" had been the key component of Hera's conception.

Now I'm thinking it over again and it does make... well, as much sense as something that absurd possibly could.

It does raise the interesting question of whether this means that Athena and Helo have never, even for five minutes, stopped loving each other. Because, I mean, even right at the end of S2 there was some pretty serious "I HATE YOU AND ALL OTHER HUMANS" action from Athena toward Helo. But maybe it doesn't count if the baby is half-Human. But then what would have happened if, say, Liam had lived and then Caprica and Tigh had stopped loving each other when the kid was, like, twelve? "Sorry kid, Mummy and Daddy don't love each other anymore, so you're just going to DIE?" WTF?

[icepixie]

I think possibly it only applies when the kid's still in utero? And perhaps only to Cylon+Cylon pregnancies?

(WHY AM I TRYING TO MAKE THIS STUPID NOTION MAKE LOGICAL SENSE?)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Okay, but... what, does the genetic structure just crumble, or what?

And to think, just yesterday I was telling The Boy how generally I'm pleased with how BSG handles science (by being fairly good at basic stuff and then doing the right thing and never trying to explain complicated stuff like the jump drive).

[icepixie]

Maybe love stimulates the production of some hormone necessary to conception and then to maintenance of the pregnancy, and if it isn't constantly being made, the baby dies? (Though this doesn't explain the instantaneous reaction of Caprica's baby; it should take at least a few hours for the hormone to leave the bloodstream, one would think. Then again, they are robots.)

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Something like that could do it, I suppose? Can't help wondering if, if Humans and Cylons end up producing a blended race, as has been indicated, if that will stick.

[icepixie]

...There are so many ways I want to answer that, about half of them with a joke, and all of them would spoil you. So I won't. ;)

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

So my answer to this, or at least what I'm using in fic, is that since Cylons were descended from machines created for human use, they still have deep in their programming the need to love and be loved by humans. Even though they've been trying hard to erase it, loving humans hits their deepest, most machinistic (um, I'm trying for an analog to animalistic) needs. And this is kind of awful, and kind of destructive to their society, but a Cylon loving another Cylon is always going to be a struggle, and maybe too much of a struggle to create life.

I'm not saying this is what was intended in canon, just that it a) kind of makes sense and b) gets back to the whole thing that Cylons were created on purpose to be enslaved and what that must have done to them.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Sorry I got distracted on replying to this! I really like this theory - it hits all the necessary notes, and brings the interesting background of the Cylons as a species into the matter in an interesting way.

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

I loved No Exit so, so much, and it was at this point that Nicky's paternity retcon notwithstanding, I was like, the last half of this season is not going to suck like the last half of all the other seasons leading up to the finale! Yay!

And then the next episode was Deadlock.

Now, I won't watch Black Market and The Woman King because they were bad episodes. I won't watch Deadlock again because flames on the side of my face.

[icepixie]

Really? Deadlock? I didn't think it was as great as the previous three, but aside from the reason for the fetus dying, and the whole incest thing, I didn't really have a problem with it. The overwhelming "Humans and Cylons must unite for any of them to survive!" message was rather anvilicious, since I'd figured that was where we were headed since at least season one, but I guess it had to be done.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that was pretty much where I was at. Not a bad episode, exactly, just frustrating in a few parts and a little bit anvilicious (I like this word and am stealing it from you ♥).

[icepixie]

anvilicious (I like this word and am stealing it from you ♥)

:D I can't remember if I read that somewhere or made it up on my own, but it got a lot of use when I was still watching Rusty-era Doctor Who. And, I will be honest, occasionally during B5 as well...

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I could really have used that word during season 2... and the end of the "year of specials." Euuuuuuuuuuugh.

And yes, bless it, B5 has more than its share of those moments, too. But we love it anyway.

[kungfuwaynewho.livejournal.com]

I was sort of over Helo and Athena's special perfect love for awhile by that point, and I loved the idea of Tigh/Caprica for weird reasons I can't fully articulate, and I dislike when a female character is put through the trauma of losing a child to advance someone else's plot and then that character doesn't even get to deal with it ever again - combine all that with the stupid "Tigh stopped loving you for a second so you lost your baby" and yeah. Flames. I don't even like thinking about it, to be honest, and it left such a bad taste in my mouth that I didn't like the next two episodes either even though they were perfectly fine episodes; it took me awhile to even rewatch the end of 4.5 before I came around on those.

But not Deadlock. I hate Deadlock.

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Yeah, ranty-rant, I thought Zarek killing the quorum was OOC (he's smarter and more subtle than that), and I also didn't like that the moral question of allying with the Cylons was basically dealt with by saying that the guys who oppose this alliance are bad, or (morally) crippled (and how faily is that)? Having said that, it did make for some spectacular fight scenes, and it was good to see Kara and Lee, and Kara and Sam, fighting together again.

Ellen pretends to be Eve, reveals that she made the later Cylons, and that she's actually quite awesome when she's not around Tigh.

I was so happy to see that, it made her being the final Cylon not suck. Actually it made her character arc kind of neat.

any male crew-member to hate Athena without sexualizing the hatred and threatening rape.

I am really annoyed by the idea that female Cylons can be raped by humans. I mean, Sharon should be able to yank her chains apart, overturn any furniture in the room, kill all the guards and rip all her prospective rapists' heads off their spinal columns before they can even get their dicks out of their pants. Sigh.

Caprica to lose her pregnancy

That was so sad. She and Saul were cute in a strange way. "Great-grandpa was a power drill"...heh.

[rivendellrose.livejournal.com]

Sharon should be able to yank her chains apart, overturn any furniture in the room, kill all the guards and rip all her prospective rapists' heads off their spinal columns before they can even get their dicks out of their pants. Sigh.

Honestly, I'm so boggled by that. I've gotten to the point where I've had to debate with myself whether perhaps the Human-looking Cylons aren't actually at all stronger than Humans, precisely for this reason. I mean, otherwise it just plain doesn't make any freaking sense. And we didn't get the Final Five revealing themselves on accident by some random feat of strength, so maybe there isn't really any difference. Maybe the Five were too busy making them like Humans to think that, gee, it might be helpful if they were stronger and faster than Humans.

...Honestly, I think I'm just going to go ahead and believe that, because otherwise I'll just get too damned angry.

(And in addition, we have seen Starbuck beat the crap out of Six in the past, and while Starbuck is undeniably tough, I wouldn't expect that of her if Cylons were really super-strong.)

Even leaving aside that argument, though, it'd be damned nice if Sharon, just once, got in a good hit or two like Six does when she's attacked. Apparently Six and Three are the only Cylon women allowed to defend themselves effectively. Argh.

"Great-grandpa was a power drill"...heh.

Thank you for reminding me of that line! I adored that.