rivendellrose: (Default)
[personal profile] rivendellrose
Since I had to dig it up for a Tumblr post (which you can see here if you like), here's a link to Greg Aronowitz's blog post in which he tells the, er, fascinating story of how Delenn's makeup in the B5 pilot got to where we saw it (and from where), and how Mira Furlan made sure we got the Delenn we know and love.


Choice quote:

"Mira suddenly shot up and said, "HIM!?! Did you say make HIM more human?” For the first time, Mira discovered that Delenn was supposed to be a man. I guess all of the descriptions in the script stated “frail alien” and “wise mystic”, but never really called out a sex. The gender change was something JMS was going to keep secret till the series needed the curve, but I guess it was kept TOO secret!"

PS: Why is the "preview" function on Dreamwidth totally broken? I hate not being able to check my HTML when I'm doing something other than just text and normal links...

Date: 2017-04-24 04:59 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Wonder Woman poster (kneeling with sword) (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
Hah, yeah. As much as I like the idea of a gender change, I have my doubts on how deftly or sensitively they would have treated that in 1994. And I completely understand her WTF???! reaction. You gotta tell people these things! (I heard that Mira had a conversation with Andreas Katsulas that ended up reconciling her to some of the remaining makeup, but still.)

And yeah, I'm usually all for "more alien!" and also blue makeup, but I love how it turned out. <3

Date: 2017-04-24 05:37 am (UTC)
muccamukk: Jeff and Delenn sitting quietly together, background of starcharts. (B5: Constellations)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
I feel like "Jeff only falls in love with her when she's a woman" as planned would have been Unfortunate, especially.

Date: 2017-04-24 05:40 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Wonder Woman poster (kneeling with sword) (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
Oh. I hadn't thought of that angle. But yes. Yes it would have.

/me needs Moar Jeff/Delenn but also Moar Gay

Date: 2017-04-24 05:51 am (UTC)
muccamukk: Stephen with his hand to his forehead, looking exhausted. (B5: Tired)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
John spending three scenes with his jaw on the floor after Delenn takes her hood off was obnoxious enough, but if he'd already known her as full Minbari, and if he'd already known her as full MALE (or agender) Minbari would not improved it.

Date: 2017-04-24 05:25 pm (UTC)
muccamukk: Jeff and Delenn sitting quietly together, background of starcharts. (B5: Constellations)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
Yes. True. And they retconned it so that they sorta met in the war, which helped a bit, and part of the stunned could have come from holy fuck why is she human, but on the whole I didn't find him spending so much half his second episode mentally derailed by hot chick that great. I sort of got the she's hot because she's part human vibe, which I never cared for.

But the whole Delenn Must Be a Bridge plot was never my fave. Why? Other than being able to have babies with John, why did she have to be a bridge? It mostly pissed off the humans. I guess it gave her a certain amount of theological clout with the Minbari, but they didn't seem to like it either.

(And she was hotter before, she grumbled.)

(Though I guess Mira was happy not to have to wear the full head piece.)

Date: 2017-04-24 06:00 pm (UTC)
muccamukk: Text: Do not thump the Book of G'Quon. It is disrespectful. (B5: Holy Book)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
You should make your layout wider!

Yes. That's basically the plot I've come to with Delenn: That she felt it was a way to get what she wanted, damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. And she sort of dragged everyone else along like the magnetic mines in Galexy Quest. Because the alternative is I need to make Minbari Jesus babies, and nopetopus on that.

I tend to swing to the human side of the show, less Sheridan, plus Delenn, which is also something of an oddity.

Date: 2017-04-24 06:10 pm (UTC)
muccamukk: Gwen yelling in outrage while Jason runs away. Text: "This episode was badly written!" (Galaxy Quest: Badly Written!)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
I make Nenya design mine, so no idea there.

It seems like most of my friends are either Delenn/Lennier people who will accept Susan and Marcus, or Londo/G'Kar people who have a passing interest in Delenn and Bester.

At least I wasn't on tumblr for most of the Susan/Talia v. Susan/Marcus shipwar.

Date: 2017-04-24 06:21 pm (UTC)
muccamukk: Susan in a white shirt with her uniform jacket slung over her shoulder, looking tired. (B5: Done with the day)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
Maybe you can bribe Nenya with Delenn femslash. She likes that kind of project.

Plus there's the Marcus/Naroon people, but they keep to themselves, I think.

There were TWO! There was Susan ships (which sadly didn't include Susan/Delenn) which raged mightily and I only caught the edge of, and then there was The Londo Stens Against the World, which I think Nenya saw, but I mostly missed. I don't have the bandwidth for tumblr. Possibly more that I don't know about.

Date: 2017-04-24 07:45 pm (UTC)
muccamukk: Natasha lowering her sunglasses to see over the top. She looks alarmed. (Marvel: Shades)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
Nenya says she would be delighted to redesign your DW. I'll let you two sort out what it's going to look like and what Delenn femslash pairing is preferred, lol.

iirc, the Susan ship war started with a Marcus fan filling the Susan tag (which I follow) with posts about how they couldn't imagine why Susan didn't boff Marcus because how could you turn that down? And the people who were big on Susan being queer went, FFS! the ONE bi character, who was in mourning for her girlfriend who'd just DIED! and you want her to hop on a dick!? and it sort of disintegrated from there. Then I blocked a bunch of key words.

The Londo ones were just weird.

Honestly, I mostly don't have time for ship wars. They're a pretty big energy sink.

Date: 2017-04-24 08:54 pm (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Wonder Woman poster (kneeling with sword) (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
This is just to say that you absolutely CAN bribe me with Delenn femslash to futz with your journal! :D In fact it might be more like me bribing you to let me play with it. lol. And ANY Delenn fic of yours would be amazing. <3_<3

(I mean like I don't have any official training or anything but I can poke at a CSS thing to make it go? Should be able to at least widen the columns on this one. Though if you wanted any colour changed or a different starry background or a different shape to any of the boxes, etc etc, I can do most of that as well. :D)

//fires up my demo journal//

(it's a great way to procrastinate on things I need to do that don't have actual deadlines XD)

Date: 2017-04-25 06:48 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Wonder Woman poster (kneeling with sword) (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
Kira/Delenn, oooh. Tell me moar! Also Mayan/Delenn is relevant to my interests and I know you have been poking at that occasionally over the years. :D

I had a look at journal layouts today and I realized that I don't know how to, say, take this exact layout and change the widths etc, because I can't get at the code to change it. :P But there are a bunch of very similar ones (e.g. a sidebar on the left, simple boxes) at places like [community profile] dreamwidthlayouts. So what I've done for both mine and Mucca's is to find one where I like the general shape and layout, and then play with the colours until I like them, and if some of the text is too small or too large or the icons are in a weird place (or are 50px square instead of 100px), adjust that. I could absolutely do that for you. :D If that makes any sense.

I think for background images, the file size is more important than the length/width (so long as the size works well with the layout you're doing, of course). Since it's going to load every time someone comes to your journal, you want it to be smallish (idk, 100kb? is Google's first suggestion) so it doesn't eat bandwidth.

Date: 2017-04-25 07:06 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Wonder Woman poster (kneeling with sword) (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
And this is my demo journal, where I can try out whatever. It's currently got something pretty up from [personal profile] bakesale, but anything can go there. :D


Date: 2017-05-03 01:13 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Wonder Woman poster (kneeling with sword) (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
I got the email and the background image!

I just replied with my current mockup (different layout than the first one I showed you, but it's at [personal profile] murreleting again) and some thoughts. Let me know!

(If I go with this one that I'm playing with now/emailed you about, I do need to fix the little box for where people type their comments in. The layout designer didn't bother with that, but I think I can. Unless you prefer Dreamwidth-default comment pages? Anyway just a note to myself here!)

Date: 2017-05-03 08:11 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Wonder Woman poster (kneeling with sword) (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
Yeah, I think maybe the comment box just didn't load right that one time. It seems fine now and I didn't do anything to it! So, heh.

Anyway, sent you the CSS. :D Should work!

And yeah that BB8 icon is ridiculously cute. :D Forget who made it but I think I have it on this account too. SO CUTE

Date: 2017-04-24 01:30 pm (UTC)
hearts_blood: (Orange are pretty!)
From: [personal profile] hearts_blood
My favorite part of this entire story (apart from Mira Furlan's general badassery) is re-re-rediscovering that the part of the Minbari assassin, who really got the ball rolling on the whole "plot" thing, was played by the put-upon makeup artist. XD

Date: 2017-04-24 05:24 pm (UTC)
hearts_blood: (Be somewhere else)
From: [personal profile] hearts_blood
Ohgod, no, never watch the pilot. ...At least not until I'm there to witness your pain and suffering. ;)

Even the dude admitted that having him play the Minbari ambassador was a terrible idea after the concept of the ambassador changed from what was basically Kosh to an actual humanoid, so yes, this was in fact the universe stepping in to prevent cinematic horror.

Date: 2017-04-24 05:27 pm (UTC)
muccamukk: Jeff standing in the dark, face half shadowed. (B5: All Alone in the Night)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
Hush, the pilot has Sinclair in it and is therefore amazing.

... okay, just look up the Battle of the Line speech on youtube.

I liked Laurel though, and it's really not THAT bad. It's better than the shakier season one and five eps.

Date: 2017-04-24 06:01 pm (UTC)
muccamukk: Delenn breaking the staff of the grey council. Text: Like a Boss (B5: Like a Boss)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
That's fair. Though I still don't think the pilot is THAT bad, and it's certainly interesting to see what changed and what stayed between it and season one.

Date: 2017-04-24 06:15 pm (UTC)
muccamukk: Text: Did I mention that my nose was on fire? That I have 15 wild badgers living in my trousers? (B5: Nose on Fire)
From: [personal profile] muccamukk
The original outline to the network pitch to the bible to the pilot to season one to season two is a very interesting progression in storytelling. And as much as the show is famous for having been meticulously planned years in advance, it always makes me laugh. We managed to escape some pretty dire plots on the way through all that (and picked up a few more).

Live blogging it while the boy is out of town is clearly the solution.

Date: 2017-04-24 09:01 pm (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Wonder Woman poster (kneeling with sword) (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka
Why have you not made it up to Victoria to attend Beer Trek nights with me and Mucca and her ex yet, I ask you??

(It's not just Trek, it's all kinds of hilaribad and occasionally great or classic episodes, of various teevee, mostly SFF. And pizza features as strongly as the booze. Though I'm lactose-intolerant these days and me & Mucca don't get into town that often. Still. Epic. :D)

Date: 2017-04-25 07:08 am (UTC)
nenya_kanadka: Wonder Woman poster (kneeling with sword) (Default)
From: [personal profile] nenya_kanadka

We make it down to Seattle every year or two, and should grab you for coffee next time. :D

Date: 2017-04-24 09:51 pm (UTC)
lizbee: (B5: Delenn (red fruit))
From: [personal profile] lizbee
Oh, SHOW, you dodged so many bullets.


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