season 2 trailer and comic con panel

[rivendellrose]

Since I didn't go to SDCC and was instead at a Pathfinder game with friends all day yesterday (not like Pathfinder interrupted plans to actually attend SDCC - I have never been and probably never will), upon getting home I promptly immersed myself in first Twitter, then the recorded Star Trek: Discovery panel, and then the season 2 the trailer.

Unsurprisingly, I have some thoughts. Or, more accurately, flailings.



First off, apparently the trailer shown at the con was different than the one online, as the panel all mentioned Tilly climbing out of some slimy cocoon. Which might have something to do with the spore we saw land on her late in the last season, or might be entirely unrelated. Who knows. Either way, I am looking forward to this whole cocoon thing, because that sounds delightfully on-brand for Star Trek.

I am less delighted about the confirmation that Spock will be joining us. Look, I love Spock as much as any fan, I just think that distracting from the fact that Michael Burnham is the center of Discovery's story is a bad idea, and that any appearance by someone as central to the original series (not to mention as overwhelmingly popular) as Spock will inherently do that. I didn't like when we found out that Michael Burnham was Spock's foster sister. As much as I've grudgingly enjoyed James Frain's performances as Sarek, I don't like how regularly Sarek shows up on the show. I've always felt the whole thing smacks of an unnecessary, cynical marketing decision that people will like Michael more if they connect her with Spock, and that annoys and aggravates me, and makes me antagonistic toward everything related to the concept. Additionally, I really don't like Zachary Quinto. I didn't like him in Heroes, and I liked him even less when he showed up as Spock in the reboot. I nearly got over that in the first reboot movie by just pretending he was another Vulcan who just happened to be named Spock, but then Leonard Nimoy showed up and my heart recognized the voice it has loved since I was 12, and any chance of my accepting Quinto's performance was destroyed in a fire of "NO, THAT'S THE REAL SPOCK, YOU CAN'T FOOL ME." I finally worked my way back to tolerating him in Beyond... but by the time they read off half of the Enterprise's registry number in the finale of Discovery, I was back to "DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT, YOU ASSHOLES."

If we have to have Spock (and it seems we do) I pray they cannot afford Quinto's rates and find another actor to play him. (Preferably one who doesn't have permanent dead-eyes or think that sneering is the only expression Vulcans are allowed.) This would make more sense, anyway, since they recast both Sarek and (obviously) Amanda for the series. I wish we could just ignore the stupid canon about Michael's relationship with the family, but if we're not going to... I just want to start over fresh and not have to deal with past associations with the actor, okay? Okay. (For the record, I will not pretend that anything about my feelings toward Quinto are rational. I've never heard anything but nice things about him. Apparently Nimoy was quite happy with him. That's fine. I'm sure he's a nice person. I just hate his acting, and it seems at this point that nothing is going to convince me otherwise.)

In related news, I think it might be time for another wish-list! (For context, see my original Disco Wish List from the days long before we even had a trailer for Discovery.) Here's what I'd love to see in the new season, in no particular order:

• Do not forget that Michael Burnham is the star of the show. I'm fine with detours to spend significant amounts of time with other main cast members, but if you start to get distracted into spending more time and attention on Pike or Spock, I'm gonna be pissed.


• For the love of all that's good, don't handle Culber's return poorly. Just don't. Handle it well. You're the professional TV writers, so I shouldn't have to tell you what this means.


• More Andorians as actual characters. As in, with lines.


• Related: Why have we gone backwards to their antennae not moving? If it could be done in 2001 (and it could), I know it can be done better now. Get on that, unless there's a really good reason not to.


• Re: Saru's people, do you think you could find it in your hearts to not make the predators look conventionally scary-alien-y? As in, basically, not either insects or reptiles? Those tropes are so tired. This storyline will be much more interesting if the predators are people, not monsters. Think about it.


• Goes without saying, but: more Former Emperor Georgiou, please!


• Please let L'Rell and Ash be epic buddies who get over their former sexual tension / issues and are just amazing friends. I know that's not super Dramatic! or anything, but... man would I love to see this. I want them to snark and spar, and I want L'Rell to advise and plot to help him win Burnham back. It would just be so damned cute.


• Mary keeps talking about how L'Rell had plans, and how she has secrets she hasn't told anyone (including Ash). Which... is very sweet of her, thinking that L'Rell ever really had plans. 90% of L'Rell last season was no plan at all. The 10% of the time where she had a plan, those plans figuratively and literally exploded in her face. I love L'Rell, but part of why I love her is because she is Klingon-subtle, which means by Human (or Vulcan, or Andorian) standards, she is as subtle as a sack of rocks thrown at a brick wall. And that's okay! Embrace it! Embrace the fact that L'Rell thinks she's subtle, when in actuality everyone outside her mental circle is kind of like "Um, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't just stride down the corridor of your enemy's ship without even a pretense of a plan other than 'get the hell out of here'?" If you have to not let Mary in on the secret, that's totally okay. She seems invested in the idea that L'Rell is clever and canny and tricky, and that's adorable. (And... she is. She's just Klingon clever and canny and tricky.)


• More Cornwell. Preferably including more Cornwell and L'Rell together in the same room. Also more Burnham and L'Rell in the same room. More ladies in the same room in general.


• More Tig Notaro. I haven't even seen more than a tiny clip of her character yet, but I feel confident that I want more of her. I also want to meet her wife. She has one, don't lie.


• We've seen an awful lot of Andorian men, and never an Andorian woman in this series. I'm just sayin'.


• Look... I know the makeup guys really want to do Borg. And they seem great, so it kind of saddens me to encourage you not to do what they want, but... no Borg. Please. We have had too many Borg already. NO MORE BORG. They're overdone, they're not scary anymore, we're not supposed to have encountered them yet for another hundred-odd years... just don't. Please. I'm literally begging you on this one, because I don't want to see them on a "next week" trailer and just GROAN.

Comments

[nenya_kanadka]

Tig Notaro obviously either has a wife or is dating Cornwell. /has not seen even the tiny clip of her but is already excite

(Or both, I mean. Space poly ftw!)

Your priorities and mine are very similar! (I'm less invested in Michael/Ash or the Andorians than you are, but hard same on Ash&L'Rell friendship and on moar (any!) female Andorians plz.)

I have no strong feelings on Quinto and would be vastly surprised if they get him for Disco--they've recast Spock's parents and Pike already, and I think they have SOME idea of needing to make sure Spock doesn't steal the show (heck, last I'd heard they were planning not to show him for that very reason). And IMHO casting Quinto (famously in the role from elsewhere) would be more likely to foreground Spock than casting some unknown.

(No wait--I'd heard they were doing flashback child Spock but not Enterprise Spock? From something Sonequa Martin-Green said about how there was going to be lots about her backstory this time. But fuck knows when that article was dated or how relevant it will turn out to be.)

ANYway, the few things I really loved enough from AOS to want to see them in Disco were mostly from Beyond, and things I also won't get (Shohreh Aghdashloo! Jaylah!), so 90% of the time I'm happy to just pretend it doesn't exist. :P

YES to Michael as the continued heart and focus of the show. Lots of Discovery crew ensemble stuff would be awesome too, but no deciding to pander to the dudebros and make it all about white guys again, ok? They did so well in season 1 and I would like to continue this pleasant sensation of being the target audience, please!

YES to more Cornwell (oh Kat!) and more Georgiou 😈 and, like, explorations of their various moral choices. (ie Don't turn Kat evil but hopefully at least slightly address the whole "signed on to genocide" thing while not making it ALL her fault when Sarek and the Federation Council are also responsible; and give me something of a redemption arc with Evil Pippa without making it too easy.) Confirmation that Prime Philippa was queer. Bonus: Bisexual Admiral Kat, but I'm trying not to get too invested in that one.

Yes to climbing out of slimy space pods, lol, and NO to Borg (much as I love them in their correct context and in judicious doses). Would also like more Trills, could handle Betazoids, and like that we get a Saurian (as long as he doesn't upstage Saru--can the show support two characters in weird alien face makeup? I hope so!).

Already bored with Section 31. Would rather no more Lorca of any kind until at least season 3.

Yes to bringing Culber back in a really great way, though I confess I don't have a good idea what that would look like and am just murmuring "don't fuck it up" quietly to myself. Also, can the background lesbians get names?

More boldly going, more weird space shit, less war. And make it feel like Disco, guys. Don't fuck it up!

(...should probably at least look at the online trailer, huh? Lol my nervousness about watching it and hating it!)

[rivendellrose]

I will warn you that the trailer does a weird 90s music thing that made me kind of go "er... what?" It may not bother you or even really register for you, but I had a little bit of... There should be a word for when you're not quite sure of a choice someone has made but you don't totally dislike it, but you're also anticipating having to argue with people that it wasn't the worst decision ever? And it is just for the first few episodes, so there is A Lot of Pike.

They definitely said there would be child!Spock, but... there was some hinting in the trailer that we might see adult!Spock as well. You're almost certainly right about Quinto, I just... react poorly to even the thought of him.

The thing about Section 31 is, first, they make me think of my two favorite previous Treks (DS9 and ENT), and also they allow me to think of Former Emperor Philippa as a badass spy and secret agent. Which... I admit I will put up with a lot for those mental images. So I am cool with it, but I recognize that their plotlines have often been somewhat boring in the past (see: the episode where Bashir and O'Brien wander around Sloane's brain for reasons I can't quite remember).

Confirmation that Prime Georgiou was queer/bisexual would be my DREAM, but I am not holding my breath on that one. I mostly just extrapolate wildly by saying that if Emperor Georgiou is bi, then clearly Prime Georgiou was, too, because they're the same person apart from all the evil, ergo, clearly same sexuality. QED. Or whatever.

The background lesbians definitely need names, agreed. As far as Culber... honestly, I would be happy with a stupid traditional "Hey, there was a weird anomaly and now Culber is back!" I've had this awkward feeling ever since the spore that landed on Tilly that we're going to have to put up with Culber in Tilly's body for a while, and... while that could be done well I keep worrying, again, about having to defend it to people because they do something weirdly awkward or tone deaf or people just think it's awkward and tone deaf.

They have sworn there will be less war and more space-y science-y sci-fi stuff this season, in the past, so I am here for that.

[nenya_kanadka]

There very much SHOULD be a word for that sensation that you're totally going to end up having to defend someone else's possibly-dubious decision to third parties!

I loved DS9 (show of my heart, man, with Disco s1 pretty much neck and neck with it now) and didn't mind Section 31 there. I think because it fit with some of the stuff they were doing with Julian as a spy and how good things like Starfleet could be corrupted from within (in a way that reminded me of how they'd dealt with the reactions to possible Changeling infiltration earlier, which I'd really liked). It kind of fit for DS9? Though even there it got a bit overused. But the impression I get from its use most other times is a bunch of edgelord dudebros going "Wouldn't it be so much darker and therefore more interesting to spend all our valuable time on the shady people doing terrible things 'for the greater good' instead of the ones being honest and curious about others and as nonviolent as possible? Wouldn't that be COOLER than boring goody two shoes regular Starfleet?" And I'm like...no. 😂 I'm also tired of "Every cause you ever thought was worthwhile and every ideal you ever had is secretly rotten from within." I can deal with "there are and have always been unethical strains in Starfleet and Federation thought and practice, and that's something we as Starfleet officers need to keep an eye out for" because that's just, like, life. But when it's either "Starfleet is terrible all along and you are stupid for ever loving it--muahaha let me show you its evil underbelly" or else "but dark and skeezy is more interesting!" I just...ughh. No thanks.

Perhaps I am irrational on the subject.

I *DO* think that the former Terran Emperor would get along with Section 31 much better than with regular Starfleet, and if they keep its appearances to a reasonable amount of screentime mostly tied to her, that could be cool! But even given how well they (imho) treated the "is Lorca a bad guy or a ~fascinatingly shady and cool~ man making ~hard choices~?" question last year, I'll believe they're not doing this I hate with Section 31 when I see it. :P

It wouldn't have occurred to me that Tilly might host Culber for a while until you said that back in the spring, but who knows?? Bodysharing is an antient Star Trek tradition--I just don't want them hetting up the gays somehow. (Or, oh no, giving Tilly a surprise magic space baby???) I have hopes that they'll bring him back in a sane way though, and I like how we're basically all convincedhe IS returning, just not sure the details.

[rivendellrose]

It's like... hmmm. I have to think about this. There should be a word, but I am not good at coming up with neologisms. Whatever the word is, it is how I often feel about Discovery. Basically, "No, wait, this might not be as bad as you think!!!"

I do get what you mean re: the whole "everything has a rotten core!" aspect of Section 31, but... at the same time, I grew up on DS9, so I just sort of assume it to be the case. If they weren't showing it, I'd assume there was something worse going on. I don't want it to be the central thing, for sure, but before they brought Section 31 in for Philippa I had already spent months assuming Lorca was Section 31, so... my brain was already there, and switching it over to Philippa works well for me. As to how well they handle it... we'll see how that plays out. It could easily go poorly, but I am going in with the assumption it will be handled well.

The fact that he's coming back isn't a secret - it hasn't been for months. They are being very, very clear that he's coming back, and I don't think they're being that way as some kind of trick, so... he's coming back. We just don't know exactly when or how. (God, I hope they're not dumb enough for magic space baby. I'm just going to assume that no one in that writers room is that stupid.)

[nenya_kanadka]

"No, wait, this might not be as bad as you think!!!"

Right!? This is my exact experience with Disco, and one reason why I love it so is that at least 3/4 of the time those weird gambits they've made have really paid off for me. So I'm pretty willing to give them some room to tell their stories in unusual ways, now. (While I totally get that they haven't won that confidence from everyone and that's okay.)

Yes, true about DS9 meaning Section 31 has been there all along. I was thinking MU for Lorca, which turned out to be true, but I suspect that if it hadn't I'd have been chomping at the bit for Mirrorverse in season 2, to the dismay of people who don't like it. So I feel you there. XD

Yeah, the first couple times they said he was coming back I was like "I *want* to believe..." and was willing to go to bat for them because I really hoped it was true. But they've continued to promise it and he's like officially a cast member for season 2 and stuff, so now it's settled into a comfortable expectation that he'll be back, and a curiosity as to how. I'm so glad.

(Hiring Tig Notaro, Known Lesbian, is also a good sign to me that they do give a fuck about queer people. And I literally cannot see her being written as straight, so there's that too. /already vaguely shipping her with Cornwell, but then remember what happened last time I shipped Disco women sight unseen 😜)

❤❤❤❤❤❤

[rivendellrose]

Granted, I was on-record before the series started as saying that I would do my absolute best to love and defend this show unless they started making really egregious mistakes. But I feel like, after S1, they've mostly earned that loyalty from me, too. So I am a constant cheerleader now, and eternal advocate of "Just give them a chance to work through this and tell the whole story."

The Mirrorverse thing... yeesh. Boy did I miss the boat on that one. lol. Looking back, there were about as many hints for it as for Tyler being Voq, but I 100% did not see it coming until pretty much the last possible second before it was confirmed.

I believe it mostly because poor Wilson Cruz has been so... the man is just tired of repeating ad nauseum on Twitter that he WILL BE COMING BACK. You can see how exhausted he is by the whole thing. If it wasn't real, I feel confident he'd have given up by now. :P

...Wait, which Disco ladies did you ship sight unseen and then regret shipping? Do I know this story?

[nenya_kanadka]

Prime Philippa and Michael! I was all set for the captain/XO ship I thouuuughtt we were getting, AND THEN.

I mean, I do love what we got to itty-bitty pieces. But way to pull the rug out from under preemptive shipping, show!

(I still miss her. I cope by writing Kat missing her.)

I really need to watch a trailer or something because otherwise, now that I know Number One *is* in it, I've decided that Tig Notaro is *her* wife. This can't be good for me...!

Also: Agreed on Wilson Cruz. ❤❤❤ Who seems thrilled to be going to comic con, which you wouldn't think if he really thought Culber was getting the short end of the stick. And who seems lovely.

[rivendellrose]

Ah, yes, the ship that I took one look at and went "I don't care if you kill her. I don't care if you establish their relationship as mother and daughter. I don't care if you bring her back as evil and establish their relationship as even more mother and daughter. I will keep inventing AUs that make this work UNTIL THE END OF TIME." XD Sorry, canon, but you are just a suggestion when compared to the power of my determination to ship those two.

I'm preeeeetty sure Tig's character (something Reno? Reno something? I forget) is from a different ship. But I suppose that doesn't mean they can't be together!

He really does seem like a sweetheart, and from everything I've seen he is genuinely happy with what they're doing with the character. Which, granted, is sort of an actor's job when they're promoting something they're in. But when they seem earnest about it (as he does) I tend to believe them unless there's evidence otherwise.

[indiegal]

OH MY GOD YOUR ICON *dies*

[nenya_kanadka]

*grins* Someone on Tumblr made it (see my icon page) -- also this one.

:D :D :D

[indiegal]

I really like your list! It’s like if I was going to make a list but remembered to think about it first rather than just writing stuff as I thought. My thoughts:

Yes pleeeeease don’t turn it into a white boy show!

Culber needs a decent reason to return but I am quite happy to see him come back, mainly because I cba with mourning Stamets all season (see Trip when his sister died in ENT, I just have very little faith in realistic representations of grief at this point).

Love the idea of Saru’s predators being actual people (though for some reason I now have the gentlemen from Buffy in my head?)

Yes to slimy space pods, no to too much Spock/Pike. Booooring!

If Tig Notaro is NOT queer then I quit.

[rivendellrose]

Ah, but the predators can't be the gentlemen, because then both species on this planet would somehow have independently evolved Doug Jones' very distinctive hand-acting. ;)

So far the grief they've shown for Stamets has been reasonable, at least to my mind, but TV always seems to do (moderately) well with the immediate aftermath and then fuck up the later effects.

If Tig Notaro is NOT queer then I quit.

Seriously. You don't get Tig Notaro and then make her play straight. That's just not right.

[nenya_kanadka]

OH NO LT BAMBI

(that damn icon 😂😂😍😍😍)

[rivendellrose]

Lt. Bambi is giving Dr. Bashir a serious run for his money on the "prettiest Star Trek boy" stakes. ;)

And should they ever decide to bring Tyler's mysterious out-of-the-picture father back into the picture (which for the record I'm not asking for or recommending), they really ought to at least consider casting Alexander Siddig. Because the two of them in one room would be far too much adorable for my sanity.

[nenya_kanadka]

The elder Tyler looks like Sid: headcanon accepted!

(Hey if Data can play whatsisface on Enterprise...)

[indiegal]

Umm seriously?! The gentlemen were Doug Jones?? Mind blown!!

But also, how did I not notice that, it is so obvious now I think of it!

[saturnofthemoon]

Wait, they're bringing in an actual adult Spock? I thought they would just show flashbacks of a young Spock with a young Michael? *sigh* Let me guess? They're hoping this will boost the ratings?

At least we're getting Rebecca Romjin as Number One. I can handle Pike and Number One because they weren't such a big part of the original series.

[rivendellrose]

I have no clue. In retrospect the statement at SDCC was non-specific about his age, but I took that to mean that it was adult!Spock rather than just child!Spock as previously confirmed. I could be (and hope I am) entirely wrong about this.

Agreed on Pike and Number One, particularly in the latter case since Number One got totally shafted in the original series. She deserves to finally get her time in the sun, damn it -- just so long as it doesn't come anywhere near to eclipsing Michael.

[nenya_kanadka]

we're getting Rebecca Romjin as Number One

WHAT?!?!?!!!

....Pike who??

Omg. :D

[lizbee]

They are definitely not bringing in Quinto as Spock! He's too old, but more pertinently, the movie and TV licenses are held by entirely different companies, and since the merger seems to have stalled, there's no possibility of the two coming together. (Allegedly, even the Enterprise had to be redesigned for Disco, they couldn't just use the movie's modernisation, but then someone else said no, they just wanted their own crack at the Constitution-class.)

I'm pretty sure we're going to see adult!Spock, but ... at this point, I have confidence that the writers know this is Michael's story.

[rivendellrose]

Oh, that is a very good point! I'd completely forgotten about the weirdness of licensing for big franchises that are on both TV and film. I'm... largely willing to resign myself to adult!Spock, as long as I don't have to dread seeing Quinto, because I am just that irrational and petty.

And you're right, of course, that the writers know this is Michael's story. I trust them, mostly. Sometimes irrational paranoia sets in, though...

[lizbee]

It's important to keep expectations low, and that way you're never disappointed.

...I enjoyed season 1 so much, I had almost forgotten that.

[rivendellrose]

Fortunately, the pacing issues in the last episode were enough to remind me of the virtues of low expectations. I loved most of what they actually did, but the pacing. It was just so damned terrible.

[lizbee]

And if Michael was giving a speech, why was her back to her apparent audience? I get that she was mainly addressing Kat (and her own past self), but whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

[rivendellrose]

There was just SO much awkward in that finale. So much good, too, but... boy do I look forward to 20-odd years from now when we can finally get the details on why that and a few other episodes toward the end felt so bizarrely rushed.

[lizbee]

RIGHT?

So many things about 2018, I've just gone, "You know? This is too confusing, I'm gonna find out all about it when the books come out in a decade or so."

...Disco's finale is kind of the least of those things, really.

[rivendellrose]

Right? The world is bonkers right now. I find myself genuinely nodding along with the people who suggest the whole thing switched into some kind of hell timeline around the time David Bowie died back in 2016.

[nenya_kanadka]

This is EXACTLY where I am at with it! 😂

("They did kill Culber," I remind myself. "And wtf was that last episode's pacing about? On the other hand, Georgiou and Kat and Michael and Captain Saru and the giant sword of stabbing space fascists and--")

Casting Tig Notaro and Rebecca Romijn is making it hard for me to take a measured, reasoned approach here, I admit. 😂